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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">James,.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Laws and jurisdiction have nothing to do with it. LE simply may have different viewpoints on issues from what we have heard.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Example: It was my impression on the last call (next to last?) that the group was tending toward “requestors must ask for relay before requesting reveal.” From experience, I don’t think that will work so well
when the requestor is, for example, LE or a private anti-abuse group.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Don<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> James M. Bladel [mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 22, 2014 10:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Don Blumenthal; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Outreach<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Don:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Even if they raise new issues or rationales….then what? Sorry to be so blunt, but nothing we include as consensus policy or an accreditation requirement will trump the laws applicable to the P/P service.
And it only takes us down the twisty path of jurisdictions….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Just not sure if there is any ultimate value of this effort.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Thanks—<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">J.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From: </b>Don Blumenthal <<a href="mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org">dblumenthal@pir.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, October 22, 2014 at 9:38 <br>
<b>To: </b>James Bladel <<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">jbladel@godaddy.com</a>>, PPSAI WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Outreach<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">James,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I am not sure what we will gain from LE or DPA sessions. However, the idea has floated a few times since we started work, and it was expressed again during the last call. I don’t see either session as defining
new privileges or protections, unless they raise issues or add rationales that we have not considered.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> James M. Bladel [<a href="mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com">mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 22, 2014 10:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Metalitz, Steven; Don Blumenthal; Volker Greimann; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Outreach</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">I am now convinced that the entire LEA issue is a morass w.r.t this PDP.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">In a nutshell, the 2013 RAA requires Registrars to maintain a responsive (24/7) point of contact with their local law enforcement, and to investigate complaints of illegal activities, and take the appropriate
action. It goes without saying that Registrars will also cooperate with court orders, warrants, etc. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Trying to use this PDP to construct additional LEA privileges (or define additional protections for P/P customers) is, IMO, out of scope and meaningless anyway. Recommend we model any P/P obligations after
those in the RAA and move on. I question what will be gained from LEA outreach.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">Thanks—</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt">J.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><Metalitz>, Steven <<a href="mailto:met@msk.com">met@msk.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, October 22, 2014 at 9:15 <br>
<b>To: </b>'Don Blumenthal' <<a href="mailto:dblumenthal@pir.org">dblumenthal@pir.org</a>>, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>, PPSAI WG <<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Outreach<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">While I understand that some WG members are eager to have a conversation with law enforcement about the 2013 RAA, I question whether that is in scope for our working group.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Don Blumenthal<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 22, 2014 10:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Volker Greimann; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Outreach</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Volker,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I understand the concern. It’s been raised on calls and in other places for good reason. We will ask for stats as part of what we would like to hear from LE.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 22, 2014 4:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Outreach</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Don,<br>
<br>
one thing I would like to ask is that before we invite Law Enforcement to present their list of asks (because that is what it will turn out to be once they are here), we should request that they also present some evidence of how better contactability since
the changes in the RAA has improved their ability to catch the bad guys. <br>
LEAs are always good at asking for more, but not as good at justifying their requests with concrete facts.<br>
<br>
Volker<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 21.10.2014 18:53, schrieb Don Blumenthal:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The chairs group met this morning while sparing the rest of you. We will send more about we talked about and thoughts about how we’ll move from here later in the week after some drafting.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the meantime, some WG members have suggested SME style briefings from the law enforcement community and data protection authorities, and it’s time to schedule them. The idea is for individuals or groups to look at what we have produced
and comment based on their perspectives. General discussions of p/p won’t be neary has helpful.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We have a good set of contacts in LE because it has a presence at ICANN and Dick Leaming from Interpol told me a few times in LA that he will join. Suggestions still are welcome for because the ICANN regulars are self-selected, and partly
on the basis of who can afford to come. That’s not necessarily the best way to get a cross section of the community.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On the other hand, we are starting almost from zero on DPA. I have a friend and long ago FTC colleague who works on privacy and security matters at the OECD as a possible starting point but we need more thoughts.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Don<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
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