<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">I assume you people use terrible email clients. Outlook perhaps, which is notably awful on dealing with inline quoting *sigh*<div>(because its perfectly clear on mine, and find the 'roll your own quote style' variants equally painful, as it usually result in indiscriminate mixing of multiple quote styles)</div><div><br></div><div>David </div><div><br><div><div>On 29 Oct 2014, at 10:27 pm, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">+1<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I was able to make sense of it, but only by closing one eye, squinting and drinking more coffee :)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Michele<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">--<br>Mr Michele Neylon<br>Blacknight Solutions<br>Hosting, Colocation & Domains<br><a href="http://www.blacknight.host/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.blacknight.host/</a><br><a href="http://blog.blacknight.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://blog.blacknight.com/</a><br><a href="http://www.technology.ie/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: blue;">http://www.technology.ie</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><a href="http://www.blacknight.press/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: blue;">http://www.blacknight.press</span></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for all our news & media<br>Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<br>Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<br>Social:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://mneylon.social/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://mneylon.social</a><br>-------------------------------<br>Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<br>Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Rosette, Kristina<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, October 29, 2014 1:49 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>David Cake; Valeriya Sherman<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Mandatory Reveal in Context of Allegations that a Domain Name is Infringing Trademark<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">All,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I can’t for the life of me figure out in the string below which text is Val’s, which is Phil’s, and which is David’s. Can we agree that if we’re going to provide an inline reply that we’ll somehow flag (initials, brackets, etc.) when we’re adding text? <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">K<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>David Cake<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:58 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Valeriya Sherman<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Mandatory Reveal in Context of Allegations that a Domain Name is Infringing Trademark<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">On 29 Oct 2014, at 3:38 am, Valeriya Sherman <<a href="mailto:VSherman@sgbdc.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">VSherman@sgbdc.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Phil,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">With respect to Reveal in the context of allegations that a domain name is infringing, we advocate Disclosure (to the Requestor only) of information sufficient to help the Requestor determine if further action against the Customer is warranted. This is especially important in the context of IP rights enforcement. <o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Allegations are not proof. If the domain name itself is regarded as possibly infringing, we have the UDRP and URS to determine it a domain name is actually infringing. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Disclosure of the Customer's identity would help the Requestor determine, before having to file a URS or UDRP, whether or not the Customer:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Sure. But being helpful to the Requestor is not, by itself, sufficient to justify disclosure.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">-has legitimate rights in the domain name;<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">-is a cybersquatter; <o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>These are the exact questions the UDRP/URS are designed to answer. Wanting to know the answers to them before filing is putting the cart before the horse somewhat. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">-is stockpiling domain names, without adding any website content; or<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>The UDRP ultimately should succeed or fail based on the use of the domain in question, not what the registrant does with their other domains. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>And as Michele notes, website content is not the only use for domain names. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">( eg I have a few friends who have used the adorably geeky rcpt.to domain for email only for over a decade now). <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Also, if the domain owner is actively using sub-domains of their domain, it may not necessarily be obvious to the requester.<o:p></o:p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">-has prior UDRP decisions against him or her.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Again, sure, helpful to know before filing your UDRP, but is helpful to potential filers sufficient to overrule the obvious desire of the registrant for privacy? <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>A desire to disassociate particular domains used for specific purposes from their general domaining business may even be the reason for using a PPP. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">All of the foregoing indicate bad faith registration and use of the domain name.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Your first two criteria are decisions that the UDRP/URS will rule on. Your second two criteria might indicate a general pattern of bad behaviour by the registrant, but do not mean that an individual domain is part of that pattern of behaviour. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> As Paul pointed out on today's call, the Requestor must be able to ascertain this information before it is obliged undergo the time and expense of bringing a UDRP or other legal proceeding. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>I do not think this follows at all. There is a big difference between the requestor would like to, and the Requestor must be able to. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>I absolutely think that the Requestor should be able to use relay to request relevant information from the registrant. If the registrant wants to reply to a relayed request asserting their legitimate right to the domain, good. But it is not obvious to me that disclosure is necessary, and I can think of many cases in which it might be problematic. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">In that way, it can possibly avoid the need for a UDRP. And if it has to bring a UDRP, it can do so in good faith. That is why Disclosure is valuable in cases involving infringing domain names, not just infringing website content. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">To address another point that has come up in the past, Disclosure does not equate to a finding of guilt. Disclosure is not a remedy of the UDRP or the URS; it would occur before a case is decided on the merits. <o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Of course - but avoiding disclosure is, presumably, often a major reason for retaining a PPP in the first place, so we should not let it happen just because it would be beneficial to the requestor. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Regards<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>David<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">It is my understanding that once a UDRP is filed, one or both of the following generally happens: 1) registrar receives a request for information to confirm registrant, which it then sends to the Complainant to amend the Complaint; or 2) the P/P Provider named in the complaint discloses or publishes the information. So under the status quo, there generally is a Reveal before a decision on the merits, but only after the Requestor is forced to file a complaint, without essential information, at a high cost. As you correctly observed, not all allegations are successful -- we don't want to encourage more with a policy that requires premature legal actions. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Val<o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Valeriya Sherman<br>Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, L.L.P.<br>1101 30th Street, N.W.<br>Suite 120<br>Washington, D.C. 20007<br>Tel 202.944.3300<br>Cell 303.589.7477<br><a href="mailto:vsherman@law.gwu.edu" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204);">vsherman@sgbdc.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: center;"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></div></div><div id="divRpF527131"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] on behalf of Volker Greimann [<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, October 28, 2014 12:37 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Mandatory Reveal in Context of Allegations that a Domain Name is Infringing Trademark</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi Phil,<br><br>I agree that a mere allegation is never enough for any form of required result. The bar needs to be set a lot higher, such as a sworn statement that includes legal consequences in case any part of it is incorrect that would allow the injured party and the provider to sue the pants off of the complainant.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Also, the violation must be clear and obvious to an untrained third party observer, which is usually not the case in trademark violation due to the fact that trademark law is simply too complex for a layman to understand. And frankly, there also is no need for an immediate reveal as there are, as you point out, already sufficient means to deal with such cases.<br><br>As for content, that is a hosting issue outside the realm of ICANN. Go to the hosting provider instead. Infringing content has nothing to do with the domain name whatsoever.<br><br>Best,<br><br>Volker<o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Am 28.10.2014 17:30, schrieb Phil Corwin:<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">I want to reiterate the concerns I raised during today's call about recommending a policy that would require a privacy/proxy provider (PPP) to reveal/disclose a registrant's identity and contact information based on a mere allegation that the domain name is infringing a trademark.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">ICANN has established the URDP and URS to deal with such allegations. And every day WIPO, NAF, and other providers deny complainant allegations. In fact, it appears that instances of attempted reverse domain hijacking are on the rise.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">A registrant who is targeted in a UDRP or URS has a choice of responding (in which case they will be revealing their identity) or to default and let the provider decide the allegation based solely upon the complaint. The proposed policy would compel disclosure of registrant data even when no UDRP, URS, or trademark infringement litigation was filed, or even if the allegation was subsequently found to fail to meet the required burden of proof.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">I am not convinced by arguments that such mandatory disclosure might facilitate resolution absent the filing of arbitration or litigation. That can be accomplished by requiring the PPP to relay a cease-and-desist letter or other communication to the registrant. Mandatory disclosure based on an unproven allegation does not further the claimed goal.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Summing up, I believe that our WG should not create any new policy related to allegations of TM infringement by a domain name but should leave this issue to the new gTLD RPM and UDRP review that will be commencing next spring.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">As for allegations of trademark infringement based upon a website's content that is a separate matter. However, I believe our discussions should recognize that PPPs are unlikely to weigh the merits of an allegation and that their likely default position will be to reveal registrant data once a complaint addresses all the relevant points required by any new policy on this subject. Given that likelihood, we should certainly consider the extent to which such a policy might be abused by a private sector or governmental actor.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Thank you for taking these views into account.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Virtualaw LLC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">1155 F Street, NW<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Suite 1050<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Washington, DC 20004<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">202-559-8597/Direct<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">202-559-8750/Fax<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">202-255-6172/cell<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Twitter: @VlawDC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></p><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">--------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.rrpproxy.net/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.brandshelter.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. 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