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<div dir="ltr" align="left" style="text-align: justify;"><span dir="ltr"><font size="3">Phil/Graeme -- An IP owner would know who they authorized to use the IP and who they did not. The issue is that they do not know whether </font><font size="3">a particular </font><font size="3">Customer</font><font size="3">,
whose identity is hidden, </font><font size="3">needs authorization or not. In the example I provided</font><font size="3"> earlier</font><font size="3">, where a Requestor has rights in US but not in </font><font size="3">the </font><font size="3">EU, it
would be essential for him to know where the Customer is located to establish whether the Customer needs any authorization -- and that is </font><font size="3">some of </font><font size="3">the information</font><font size="3"> that</font><font size="3"> Disclosure </font><font size="3"> w</font><font size="3">ould
provide.</font></span></div>
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<div><font size="3">Another point that came up during our call is that an authorized party would respond to a relay request. Lack of response to relays is evidence of bad faith, but it doesn't obviate the need for disclosure. </font><font size="3">As noted
above, a Customer may not need any authorization, so </font><font size="3">his failure to</font><font size="3"> reply</font><font size="3"> to a relayed request</font><font size="3"> is</font><font size="3"> not conclusive evidence of his rights or lack thereof.
Disclosure is still needed. </font><font size="3"> </font><font size="3"> </font></div>
<div><font size="3"> </font><font size="3"><br>
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<div><font size="3">Best,</font></div>
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<div style="font-size: 16px;"><font size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Val</span></font></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span dir="ltr">Valeriya Sherman<br>
Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, L.L.P.<br>
1101 30th Street, N.W.<br>
Suite 120<br>
Washington, D.C. 20007<br>
Tel 202.944.3300<br>
Cell 303.589.7477<br>
</span><a target="_blank" href="mailto:vsherman@law.gwu.edu" tabindex="0" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">vsherman@sgbdc.com</a></font></p>
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<div id="divRpF923304" style="direction: ltr;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] on behalf of Phil Corwin [psc@vlaw-dc.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 04, 2014 9:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Don Blumenthal; Graeme Bunton; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Yes, Graeme, it is quite useful.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">My only question regards this sentence – “Shouldn't an IP rights holder know who they've allowed to use it and for what? “ If “it” is a trademark/brand name,
wouldn’t the rights holder already know that?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best, Philip</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">Virtualaw LLC</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">1155 F Street, NW</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">Suite 1050</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">Washington, DC 20004</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">202-559-8750/Fax</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">202-255-6172/cell</span></b><b><span style="color:navy"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">Twitter: @VlawDC</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:navy">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:windowtext"> gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Don Blumenthal<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 04, 2014 9:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Graeme Bunton; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Thanks, Graeme. This summary is very helpful.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Don</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Graeme Bunton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 3, 2014 10:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">For my own benefit I thought it useful to try and capture highlights from the recent list discussion. Apologies if I've mis-characterized any of your arguments. I was trying to collect and
aggregate them for my own understanding, and perhaps this is also useful for others.<br>
<br>
In general, we're still discussing disclosure. This has created two related threads of conversation, one around the definition of content, another for allegations of IP infringement, though they mostly overlap.<br>
<br>
Before we get to that, Eric Brunner-Williams, via Michele introduced some language that I thought was interesting and helpful, at least for introducing some precision in our discussions. This was, If I am understanding correctly, that we can break down some
issues into two groups:<br>
<br>
String issues: problems directly related to the string of characters that constitute a domain name<br>
Resolved resource issues: problems related to what a domain name is pointed at<br>
<br>
I think it's worthwhile for us to discuss using those terms going forward.<br>
<br>
<b>Re: Allegations of IP Infringement and Disclosure & what constitutes content</b>
<br>
Phil Corwin raised concerns about relaying registrant details upon an allegation of infringement. He pointed out that UDRP and URS exist for string issues, and that complaints are frequently dismissed and reverse domain hijacking is increasing. Mandatory
disclosure does not, to Phil, 'facilitate resolution'. Valeriya was suggesting that having access to registrant details prior to filing a UDRP may eliminate the need for the potential UDRP, as it better enables the rights holder to determine if a UDRP is
warranted. <br>
<br>
We collectively batted this around for a bit, main points being: </span></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">the cost of a UDRP may be a useful gate to prevent abuse
</span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">'cybersquating' and stockpiling domain names are not necessarily examples of bad faith use.</span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Disclosure being helpful for the requestor does not by itself justify the disclosure
</span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">UDRP filings due to the subsequent publishing of details are generally worse for the registrant than disclosure
</span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Disclosure rather than publish may keep the customer for the provider.
</span></li></ul>
<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">I don't think we resolved much from this discussion, but perhaps it clarified the positions.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To me, and perhaps someone can clarify, it seems like the request for disclosure on allegation of infringement is to be used to fill in a rights holders' information gap. Shouldn't an IP rights holder know
who they've allowed to use it and for what? Should we be building this mechanism, given the potential for abuse and the importance of protecting registrant privacy?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">The separate thread around the definition of content, if i may borrow a phrase from Steve, generated more heat than light. It ended up centering around the issue that most privacy/proxy service providers reserve
the right to unilaterally terminate service to a customer, without due process, while also insisting that disclosing registrant details to a 3rd party upon IP infringement allegation was itself violation of due process. Volker and Frank pointed out that providers
reserve the right to protect themselves, and may not use it lightly. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Which lastly brings us to the discussion on a moderate central course of action.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">James had suggested that we look into the authorization and identification of 3rd party requestors. It's not a bad idea, though I suspect easier to implement for larger providers, so it might
be worth hearing an opinion from others.<br>
<br>
I'm going to circle back to some of the discussions and proposals that registrars had worked on privately, and will see if that can be made ready for prime time. I'd encourage everyone to ponder ways forward on this issue, as we move on to category G to make
a bit of headway before circling back.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Graeme </span></p>
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<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>_________________________</pre>
<pre>Graeme Bunton</pre>
<pre>Manager, Management Information Systems</pre>
<pre>Manager, Public Policy</pre>
<pre>Tucows Inc.</pre>
<pre>PH: 416 535 0123 ext 1634 </pre>
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