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that is a great list Volker. You left out "recipient was foolish
enough to sign on to all the IANA transition lists and is hopelessly
trying to sort their filters, whilst losing vital mail".<br>
:-) Stephanie<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2014-11-05, 4:31, Volker Greimann
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5459EE8B.3010905@key-systems.net" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
Sorry, but I smirked at this comment:<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:C6212B30B28E0D4CBA5F057882FF14450158080A@EXBE-10.hs.local"
type="cite">
<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Times New Roman;color:
#000000;font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New
Roman"><span dir="ltr">
<div><font>
<div><font size="3">Lack of response to relays is
evidence of bad faith, [...]. <br>
</font></div>
</font></div>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Really? In my book, lack of response is evidence of only one
thing: Lack of response is evidence of lack of response. Nothing
more!<br>
<br>
There may be so many reasons why someone may decline to respond
that are not bad faith, your conclusion is far fetched at best. <br>
<br>
- Message was caught by spam filters<br>
- Message was accidentally deleted<br>
- Message message was not read<br>
- Message was considered spam and ignored<br>
- Recipient believed the message does not concern him<br>
- Recipient is in hospital/on vacation<br>
- Recipient got scared by the harsh language used even though he
is not actually infringing<br>
- Recipient just does not want to deal with this at this time<br>
- Recipient choses not to respond<br>
<br>
And those are just off the top of my head.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:C6212B30B28E0D4CBA5F057882FF14450158080A@EXBE-10.hs.local"
type="cite">
<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Times New Roman;color:
#000000;font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New
Roman"><span dir="ltr">
<div><font>
<div><font size="3"> </font><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="3">Best,</font></div>
<div style="font-size: 16px;"><font size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div style="font-size: 16px;"><font size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Val</span></font></div>
</font></div>
</span></font></div>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma; font-size:13px">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><font size="3"
face="Times New Roman"><span dir="ltr">Valeriya
Sherman<br>
Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, L.L.P.<br>
1101 30th Street, N.W.<br>
Suite 120<br>
Washington, D.C. 20007<br>
Tel 202.944.3300<br>
Cell 303.589.7477<br>
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:vsherman@law.gwu.edu"
tabindex="0" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">vsherman@sgbdc.com</a></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000;
font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRpF923304" style="direction: ltr;"><font
size="2" color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
on behalf of Phil Corwin [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com">psc@vlaw-dc.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 04, 2014 9:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Don Blumenthal; Graeme Bunton; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap &
Moving Forward<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Yes, Graeme, it is quite useful.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">My only question regards this
sentence – “Shouldn't an IP rights holder know who
they've allowed to use it and for what? “ If “it” is
a trademark/brand name, wouldn’t the rights holder
already know that?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Best, Philip</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">Virtualaw LLC</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">1155 F Street, NW</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">Suite 1050</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">Washington, DC 20004</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">202-559-8750/Fax</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">202-255-6172/cell</span></b><b><span
style="color:navy"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">Twitter: @VlawDC</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:navy">"Luck is the residue of design" --
Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Don Blumenthal<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 04, 2014 9:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Graeme Bunton; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap
& Moving Forward</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Thanks, Graeme. This summary is very
helpful. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Don</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:windowtext"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Graeme Bunton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 3, 2014 10:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap &
Moving Forward</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">For
my own benefit I thought it useful to try and
capture highlights from the recent list discussion.
Apologies if I've mis-characterized any of your
arguments. I was trying to collect and aggregate
them for my own understanding, and perhaps this is
also useful for others.<br>
<br>
In general, we're still discussing disclosure. This
has created two related threads of conversation, one
around the definition of content, another for
allegations of IP infringement, though they mostly
overlap.<br>
<br>
Before we get to that, Eric Brunner-Williams, via
Michele introduced some language that I thought was
interesting and helpful, at least for introducing
some precision in our discussions. This was, If I
am understanding correctly, that we can break down
some issues into two groups:<br>
<br>
String issues: problems directly related to the
string of characters that constitute a domain name<br>
Resolved resource issues: problems related to what a
domain name is pointed at<br>
<br>
I think it's worthwhile for us to discuss using
those terms going forward.<br>
<br>
<b>Re: Allegations of IP Infringement and Disclosure
& what constitutes content</b> <br>
Phil Corwin raised concerns about relaying
registrant details upon an allegation of
infringement. He pointed out that UDRP and URS
exist for string issues, and that complaints are
frequently dismissed and reverse domain hijacking is
increasing. Mandatory disclosure does not, to
Phil, 'facilitate resolution'. Valeriya was
suggesting that having access to registrant details
prior to filing a UDRP may eliminate the need for
the potential UDRP, as it better enables the rights
holder to determine if a UDRP is warranted. <br>
<br>
We collectively batted this around for a bit, main
points being: </span></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">the
cost of a UDRP may be a useful gate to prevent
abuse </span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">'cybersquating'
and stockpiling domain names are not necessarily
examples of bad faith use.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Disclosure
being helpful for the requestor does not by itself
justify the disclosure </span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">UDRP
filings due to the subsequent publishing of
details are generally worse for the registrant
than disclosure </span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Disclosure
rather than publish may keep the customer for the
provider. </span></li>
</ul>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">I
don't think we resolved much from this discussion,
but perhaps it clarified the positions.</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To
me, and perhaps someone can clarify, it seems like
the request for disclosure on allegation of
infringement is to be used to fill in a rights
holders' information gap. Shouldn't an IP rights
holder know who they've allowed to use it and for
what? Should we be building this mechanism, given
the potential for abuse and the importance of
protecting registrant privacy?</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">The
separate thread around the definition of content, if
i may borrow a phrase from Steve, generated more
heat than light. It ended up centering around the
issue that most privacy/proxy service providers
reserve the right to unilaterally terminate service
to a customer, without due process, while also
insisting that disclosing registrant details to a
3rd party upon IP infringement allegation was itself
violation of due process. Volker and Frank pointed
out that providers reserve the right to protect
themselves, and may not use it lightly. </span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Which
lastly brings us to the discussion on a moderate
central course of action.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">James
had suggested that we look into the authorization
and identification of 3rd party requestors. It's not
a bad idea, though I suspect easier to implement for
larger providers, so it might be worth hearing an
opinion from others.<br>
<br>
I'm going to circle back to some of the discussions
and proposals that registrars had worked on
privately, and will see if that can be made ready
for prime time. I'd encourage everyone to ponder
ways forward on this issue, as we move on to
category G to make a bit of headway before circling
back.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Graeme </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><br>
</span></p>
</div>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>_________________________</pre>
<pre>Graeme Bunton</pre>
<pre>Manager, Management Information Systems</pre>
<pre>Manager, Public Policy</pre>
<pre>Tucows Inc.</pre>
<pre>PH: 416 535 0123 ext 1634 </pre>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span style="color:windowtext">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="">No virus found in this
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Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8462 -
Release Date: 10/27/14<br>
Internal Virus Database is out of date.</p>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
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