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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I wrote a couple of weeks ago that we need to avoid using legal terminology and here is a prime example of why. Would anybody on the list from other countries
care to quote your relevant legal codes? Can anybody provide cites to the rules in the ?? unrepresented countries in the world where p/p providers might set up shop?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We are having discussions here within a group that has both lawyers and non-lawyers. We are here to establish policies, not legal requirements. We need to use
terms in ways that will be helpful to the discussions. Being useful in guiding a judge or opposing counsel isn’t the goal.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">UDRP processes are helpful as guides, as are lessons that we can take from law enforcement, private anti-abuse, private consumer protection, and whatever other
communities might use relay or reveal. I don’t think that citing decisions to establish definitions for terms is helpful because the criteria used from one arena to another may vary.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Don<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"> David Heasley [mailto:dheasley@sgbdc.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 7, 2014 11:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Don Blumenthal; Volker Greimann; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">The term "evidence" is correct. As the Federal Rules of Evidence make clear, "Evidence is relevant if (a) it has any tendency to make a fact more or less probable than it would be without the evidence; and
(b) the fact is of consequence in determining the action." Federal Rule of Evidence 401. It does not have to be conclusive to be evidence; it only has to be relevant. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">If my memory serves me correctly, we started discussing UDRP to address the option of Reveal when confronted with allegations of infringement in the domain name itself (i.e., for string issues). Here, UDRP
decisions are useful in our deliberations because relay and reveal are very often a prelude to a UDRP proceeding. UDRP decisions provide well-established and impartial criteria that help us identify what information about a customer will help the Requestor
determine if a UDRP proceeding is warranted. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p>David K. Heasley<br>
Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, LLP<br>
1101 30th Street, N.W.<br>
Suite 120<br>
Washington, D.C. 20007<br>
Tel. 202.944.2339<br>
Fax 202.944.3306<br>
<a href="mailto:dheasley@sgbdc.com">dheasley@sgbdc.com</a><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><br>
</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Don Blumenthal<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 07, 2014 9:38 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Volker Greimann; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward</span><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If I may, I initially read Val’s wording the way that Volker did. After following the thread, I don’t think that the intent was to be quite so conclusory. “Indicator”
or something even fuzzier might have fit better.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">On another point, while UDRP and URS seem to have dominated recent discussions on E and F, relay and reveal matters are broader than IP. I’m concerned about using
UDRP decisions to guide our definitions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Don<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 7, 2014 6:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Valeriya Sherman; Kiran Malancharuvil; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Valeriya,<br>
<br>
now you say it may be a factor in determining bad faith, but that is not the same as what you initially wrote and I objected to. You originally wrote:<br>
<br>
"Lack of response to relays <b><span style="font-size:13.5pt">is </span></b>evidence of bad faith, but it doesn't obviate the need for disclosure."
<br>
<br>
That statement as originally written simply is not true.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 05.11.2014 23:22, schrieb Valeriya Sherman:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify">+1 to Kiran.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New ,serif",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New"">When I write that lack of a response to relays of cease and desist letters is a factor evidencing bad faith, I am not basing it on personal opinions. It is a factor that has long been accepted in UDRP
decisions:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New ,serif",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Times New"">(1) <i>Pearson Education, Inc v. CTP Internacional; Private Registration at Directi Internet Solutions Pvt. Ltd. and <</i><a href="http://scottforesmanandcompany.com" target="_blank"><i>scottforesmanandcompany.com</i></a><i>>,</i> WIPO/D2009-0266
(noting that privacy-shielded registrant's failure to reply to cease-and-desist letter was a "compounding" factor in finding bad faith). <a href="http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2009/d2009-0266.html" target="_blank">http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2009/d2009-0266.html</a><br>
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(2) <i>Advance Magazine Publishers v. MSA, Inc. and Moniker Privacy Servs.</i>, WIPO/D2007-1743 (observing that privacy-shielded registrant's failure to reply to numerous communications regarding its trademark infringement was prominent among several factors
leading to a finding of bad faith). <a href="http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2007/d2007-1743.html" target="_blank">http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2007/d2007-1743.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Times New"">(3) <i>Fifth Third Bancorp v. Secure Whois Information Servs., </i>WIPO/D2006-0696 (finding strong evidence of bad faith in proxy-shielded respondent's failure to respond
to correspondence and provision of faulty contact information). <a href="http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2006/d2006-0696.html" target="_blank">http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2006/d2006-0696.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New ,serif",serif">(4) <i>TDS Telecomm'cns Corp. v. Nevis Domains and Moniker Privacy Servs</i>, .WIPO/D2006-1620 (finding bad faith in a privacy-shielded respondent's failure to reply to cease-and-desist
letters addressed to its privacy service provider).<br>
<a href="http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2006/d2006-1620.html" target="_blank">http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2006/d2006-1620.html</a><a href="http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2006/d2006-1620.html" target="_blank">http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2006/d2006-1620.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New ,serif",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New ,serif",serif">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New ,serif",serif">Val<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Valeriya Sherman<br>
Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, L.L.P.<br>
1101 30th Street, N.W.<br>
Suite 120<br>
Washington, D.C. 20007<br>
Tel 202.944.3300<br>
Cell 303.589.7477<br>
</span><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:vsherman@law.gwu.edu" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#1155CC">vsherman@sgbdc.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] on behalf of Kiran Malancharuvil [<a href="mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com">Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 05, 2014 4:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Volker Greimann; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">None of you seem to have read past what you quoted. Val’s point is that it’s one thing (of many MANY factors) that may (or may not) contribute to a finding of
bad faith. At no point does she claim it’s a dispositive factor. I’m sure that no one here believes that. Like she explicitly said… lack of response doesn’t conclusively demonstrate rights or lack thereof. Obviously it doesn’t. Mischaracterizing statements
does everyone in this group a disservice and distracts from the actual points being made.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Perhaps Val’s point (and if not, my point) is that disclosure is necessary to help rights owners begin a dialogue with the registrant about whether or not they
have legitimate rights. UDRP filings and the back and forth that results from that is unduly burdensome to brand owners and registrants when a private dialogue will do. As you, we and other have pointed out, it’s not just those we have licensed that have
a legitimate right to the name, but how do we know if we don’t know who they are/where they are?
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">You are right, it is absolutely a registrants prerogative to choose not to respond to a relay request. But the issue should not end there. I can refuse to respond
to a subpoena, or refuse to pay my credit card bill, or refuse to respond to the government if the IRS requests an audit of my taxes. That’s not the end of the story, there are consequences to those actions. Perhaps there are consequences to ignoring “legitimate”
(whatever we deem that to be) requests for information if certain criteria are met in certain situations. I am not (at this point) advocating one solution or another.. but I would like to see language that suggests “absolutes” disappear from our discussions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
Kiran</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#1F497D">Kiran Malancharuvil</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Policy Counselor</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">MarkMonitor</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">415.222.8318 (t)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">415.419.9138 (m)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a href="http://www.markmonitor.com/" target="_blank">www.markmonitor.com</a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 05, 2014 1:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Sorry, but I smirked at this comment:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Lack of response to relays is evidence of bad faith, [...]. <o:p>
</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Really? In my book, lack of response is evidence of only one thing: Lack of response is evidence of lack of response. Nothing more!<br>
<br>
There may be so many reasons why someone may decline to respond that are not bad faith, your conclusion is far fetched at best.
<br>
<br>
- Message was caught by spam filters<br>
- Message was accidentally deleted<br>
- Message message was not read<br>
- Message was considered spam and ignored<br>
- Recipient believed the message does not concern him<br>
- Recipient is in hospital/on vacation<br>
- Recipient got scared by the harsh language used even though he is not actually infringing<br>
- Recipient just does not want to deal with this at this time<br>
- Recipient choses not to respond<br>
<br>
And those are just off the top of my head.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Val<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Valeriya Sherman<br>
Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, L.L.P.<br>
1101 30th Street, N.W.<br>
Suite 120<br>
Washington, D.C. 20007<br>
Tel 202.944.3300<br>
Cell 303.589.7477<br>
<a href="mailto:vsherman@law.gwu.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">vsherman@sgbdc.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
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<div id="divRpF923304">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] on behalf of Phil Corwin [<a href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com" target="_blank">psc@vlaw-dc.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 04, 2014 9:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Don Blumenthal; Graeme Bunton; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yes, Graeme, it is quite useful.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">My only question regards this sentence – “Shouldn't an IP rights holder know who they've allowed to use it and for what? “ If “it” is a trademark/brand name,
wouldn’t the rights holder already know that?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best, Philip</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">Virtualaw LLC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">1155 F Street, NW</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">Suite 1050</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">Washington, DC 20004</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">202-559-8750/Fax</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">202-255-6172/cell</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy"> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">Twitter: @VlawDC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:navy">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Don Blumenthal<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 04, 2014 9:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Graeme Bunton; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks, Graeme. This summary is very helpful.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Don</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Graeme Bunton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 3, 2014 10:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Recap & Moving Forward</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">For my own benefit I thought it useful to try and capture highlights from the recent list discussion. Apologies if I've mis-characterized any of your arguments. I was trying to collect and
aggregate them for my own understanding, and perhaps this is also useful for others.<br>
<br>
In general, we're still discussing disclosure. This has created two related threads of conversation, one around the definition of content, another for allegations of IP infringement, though they mostly overlap.<br>
<br>
Before we get to that, Eric Brunner-Williams, via Michele introduced some language that I thought was interesting and helpful, at least for introducing some precision in our discussions. This was, If I am understanding correctly, that we can break down some
issues into two groups:<br>
<br>
String issues: problems directly related to the string of characters that constitute a domain name<br>
Resolved resource issues: problems related to what a domain name is pointed at<br>
<br>
I think it's worthwhile for us to discuss using those terms going forward.<br>
<br>
<b>Re: Allegations of IP Infringement and Disclosure & what constitutes content</b>
<br>
Phil Corwin raised concerns about relaying registrant details upon an allegation of infringement. He pointed out that UDRP and URS exist for string issues, and that complaints are frequently dismissed and reverse domain hijacking is increasing. Mandatory
disclosure does not, to Phil, 'facilitate resolution'. Valeriya was suggesting that having access to registrant details prior to filing a UDRP may eliminate the need for the potential UDRP, as it better enables the rights holder to determine if a UDRP is
warranted. <br>
<br>
We collectively batted this around for a bit, main points being: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">the cost of a UDRP may be a useful gate to prevent abuse
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">'cybersquating' and stockpiling domain names are not necessarily examples of bad faith use.</span>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Disclosure being helpful for the requestor does not by itself justify the disclosure
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">UDRP filings due to the subsequent publishing of details are generally worse for the registrant than disclosure
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Disclosure rather than publish may keep the customer for the provider.
</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">I don't think we resolved much from this discussion, but perhaps it clarified the positions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">To me, and perhaps someone can clarify, it seems like the request for disclosure on allegation of infringement is to be used to fill in a rights holders' information gap. Shouldn't an IP rights holder know
who they've allowed to use it and for what? Should we be building this mechanism, given the potential for abuse and the importance of protecting registrant privacy?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">The separate thread around the definition of content, if i may borrow a phrase from Steve, generated more heat than light. It ended up centering around the issue that most privacy/proxy service providers reserve
the right to unilaterally terminate service to a customer, without due process, while also insisting that disclosing registrant details to a 3rd party upon IP infringement allegation was itself violation of due process. Volker and Frank pointed out that providers
reserve the right to protect themselves, and may not use it lightly. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Which lastly brings us to the discussion on a moderate central course of action.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">James had suggested that we look into the authorization and identification of 3rd party requestors. It's not a bad idea, though I suspect easier to implement for larger providers, so it might
be worth hearing an opinion from others.<br>
<br>
I'm going to circle back to some of the discussions and proposals that registrars had worked on privately, and will see if that can be made ready for prime time. I'd encourage everyone to ponder ways forward on this issue, as we move on to category G to make
a bit of headway before circling back.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Graeme </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>_________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Graeme Bunton<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Manager, Management Information Systems<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Manager, Public Policy<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tucows Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>PH: 416 535 0123 ext 1634 <o:p></o:p></pre>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="color:windowtext">
<hr size="1" width="100%" noshade="" style="color:#A0A0A0" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal">No virus found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8462 - Release Date: 10/27/14<br>
Internal Virus Database is out of date.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>--------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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