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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think the point of the guidelines is that it is up to the WG as a whole, not an individual member acting a few hours before a scheduled meeting, to invite
non-members to a meeting to provide input. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mary Wong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 23, 2015 7:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hello - I meant to send the follow up message below to everyone, thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Mary Wong <<a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org">mary.wong@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, March 23, 2015 at 19:26<br>
<b>To: </b>Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Stephanie and everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Others with more experience may be able to shed more light on the intent and history behind this provision in the WG Guidelines, but FWIW I believe the cost issue
relates to the WG making a more formal request to the GNSO Council, to get an educational briefing or similar advice, e.g. from a subject matter expert or consultant. This could involve technical, legal or other specialty knowledge for which a paid opinion
may be appropriate. However, the provision also permits a WG to seek input from “self formed groups and/or individuals” on a more informal basis, so my assumption is that the Guidelines provide a WG with the flexibility to consider which course of action would
be the more efficacious and appropriate for its purpose.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Mary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Mary Wong<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Senior Policy Director<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Telephone: +1 603 574 4892<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Email:
<a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org">mary.wong@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, March 23, 2015 at 19:16<br>
<b>To: </b>Mary Wong <<a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org">mary.wong@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">THanks Mary, very helpful. Since there is no cost, my question would be, why not?<br>
cheers Stephanie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On 2015-03-23 19:11, Mary Wong wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<pre><span style="color:black">Hello everyone, to follow up on Graemešs message, please note that Section<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">4.4 of the GNSOšs Working Group Guidelines contains the following<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">language:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">"If the WG determines that it needs additional educational briefings<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">occurring upfront or as issues emerge during deliberations, it should<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">identify its specific requests to the [Chartering Organization] including<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">subject matter(s), type(s) of expertise, objectives, and costs. If<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">additional costs are involved, prior approval must be obtained from the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">[Chartering Organization]. Additionally, a WG may, at any stage throughout<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">its deliberations, decide to seek input from self formed groups and/or<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">individuals with the aim of further informing WG members about matters<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">that fall within the remit of the WG and which are of interest to the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">ICANN community."<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">We hope this is helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Cheers<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Mary<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Mary Wong<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Senior Policy Director<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Telephone: +1 603 574 4892<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Email: <a href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org">mary.wong@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">From: Graeme Bunton <a href="mailto:gbunton@tucows.com"><gbunton@tucows.com></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Date: Monday, March 23, 2015 at 18:44<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">To: Kathy Kleiman <a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com"><kathy@kathykleiman.com></a>, <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">"gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"</a><a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"><gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org></a>, "Metalitz, Steven" <a href="mailto:met@msk.com"><met@msk.com></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span style="color:black">Hi Kathy,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Thanks for the suggestion. There's little doubt that John would have<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">some interesting, and hopefully illuminating experience in this area.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">However, I think we're too close to tomorrow's call to have him join us.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">I'd like to suggest that after tomorrow's call we can take stock of<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">where we're at, and decide if John can help us with his insight. Once<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">there, we can then extend an invitation or not as the case may be.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Graeme<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">On 3/23/2015 6:14 PM, Kathy Kleiman wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span style="color:black">I forgot to add that John Berryhill would like to join us tomorrow. He<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">can speak from very direct experience to the difference between<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">working with "agents" of a copyright and trademark owner, or the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">trademark/copyright owners and attorney directly. I think it will be<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">valuable insight - and inform our important discussion!<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Kathy<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span style="color:black">Hi Kiran,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Thank you for your comments. The agency issue worries some of us<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">greatly. By what authority is the "agency" established; what actual<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">knowledge of the a) trademark or copyright owner's rights are there,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">b) by what expertise can he/she make an assessment of infringement<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">and c) by what right, ability or authority can the signatory bind the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">trademark or copyright owner to the allegations being made.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">I should note that the proposed changes follow the DMCA: for a Reveal<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Subpoena, the request must be done by an attorney for the Requester<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">or by the Requester himself/herself/itself (in the US we call it "pro<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">se").<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Kathy<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span style="color:black">Hi Kathy,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Thanks for forwarding this to the group, and special thanks for<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">forwarding with enough time to review before the call!<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">We can certainly discuss in more depth on the call tomorrow, but I<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">am not a fan of the changes in Section II. I'm concerned about the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">level of minutiae in the language, and I'm wondering how and why<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">that level of micromanagement will be helpful/probative information<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">to the Service Provider. In very large companies, the trademark<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">owner/president/VP/partner, etc. isn't actually involved directly in<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">the enforcement activity. It should be enough to demonstrate agency,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">as the previous language did.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Perhaps I will have more later, but I wanted to float that to the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">group before the call.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Kiran<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Kiran Malancharuvil<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Policy Counselor<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">MarkMonitor<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">415.222.8318 (t)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">415.419.9138 (m)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><a href="http://www.markmonitor.com">www.markmonitor.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">From: <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">[<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kathy<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Kleiman<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:19 AM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">To: <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>; Metalitz, Steven; Graeme Bunton<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Steve and I talked on Friday, and he asked me to circulate a Revised<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Reveal document -- which is attached. This document has three types<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">of changes based on our discussion last Tuesday and subsequent<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">research:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">1. To the title (reset pending further discussion) 2. To Section II,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">the Request Templates to clarify the requester and his/her direct<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">knowledge of the alleged infringement and legal authority to<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">represent the Requester, and 3. Annex (reset to original pending<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">discussion with drafters over the narrow goals and intents of this<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">section)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">All other edits remain - to continue our excellent discussion of<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">high standards for disclosure, human rights issues, etc. There is<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">also much to discuss regarding follow-up processes (after the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Request) including<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">a) when are appeals allowed and for whom, and b) how does a Provider<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">challenge an alleged "wrongful disclosure" of its Customer's<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">information?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Best and have a good rest of weekend,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Kathy<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span style="color:black">--<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">_________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Graeme Bunton<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Manager, Management Information Systems<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Manager, Public Policy<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Tucows Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">PH: 416 535 0123 ext 1634<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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<pre><span style="color:black">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
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