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I know, but it is also one of the more difficult areas to check as
there is no central repository. So as a provider, all we see is
claims that could be either true or false and that have to be taken
at face value.<br>
<br>
And even when an artist believes he holds all rights in a title and
goes after infringing parties, he can still be found to have ripped
it off someone else and be ordered to pay millions to the other
artist. <br>
<br>
VG<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 31.03.2015 um 14:17 schrieb Victoria
Sheckler:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CDC48D46-E350-4ED9-B3E6-5A5C7D9D8251@riaa.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div>Please remember that copyright - the rights to ones
authorship - is also a fundamental human right under the
declaration of human rights.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br>
On Mar 30, 2015, at 10:41 PM, Stephanie Perrin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>And replying to my own comment, may I repeat the heart of
Carlton's response, my emphasis added on parts I consider key:<br>
<pre wrap="">It is reasonable to assume a P/P registration, properly constituted and all rules applied, is effected for cause. [Since 2010, I have personally abandoned my position to deny P/P registration to businesses and allow only individuals. I now support non-discrimination for P/P registrations, so long as the rules apply equally, across the board. T<big><big>he fundamental idea is one need not know the reason for such a registration, so long as the rules are conserved.]</big></big>
Following on, it is compelling that <big><big>for a disclosure and/or reveal, it must be the agent alleging violation of rules, process or law that must demonstrate that it is good and reasonable to disclose and/or reveal.
</big></big>
We are trying to avoid going to court - which is always open to the IP community or anyone else! - on the basis that a reasonable being will look at the information provided in support of the allegation and agree a disclosure and/or reveal is/are both reasonable and necessary.<big><big> Trust and verify.</big></big>
<big><big>There cannot be a trust deficit from the requestor's side. Attestation of standing to make the request is an element of trust. </big></big>Some worthy must stand up, ready to be counted. I don't care if its a lawyer, ranking officer or general poohbah. Just someone - someone - that inspires trust.
</pre>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2015-03-30 22:13, Stephanie
Perrin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:551A02C7.50402@mail.utoronto.ca"
type="cite">If I may, I think Carlton will in good time
explain what he means by the expression "In good reason",
probably accompanied by one of his other favorite
expressions, "let not your heart be troubled". If you read
past the first line, he was pointing out that reasonable
people on opposite ends ("diametric needs") must compromise
and find a way to accommodate each other.
<br>
I believe Phil just stated our key question quite
succinctly. How do we avoid going to Court, while ensuring
that the requestor is legitimate and duly authorized, and
that the service provider is not unduly burdened with the
responsibility of sorting out a deluge of requests, nor the
beneficial domain holder forced to explain why they have a
right to privacy.
<br>
Seems doable to me, given time and patience. <br>
cheers Stephanie <br>
<br>
On 2015-03-30 21:53, McGrady, Paul D. wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Thanks Holly. My question to
Carlton was not a substantive response to your comments.
It was a question to seek clarification as to whether or
not any substantive response that I may offer would
automatically be written off as "unreasonable." I see
from your response that even my desire for clarification
on what Carlton meant results in being told that I my
question is a "disappointment." I'd like to continue in
dialogue in these important issues, but if the plan is to
simply shout down any views other than the one offered in
your email - before such views can even be offered - I'm
not sure that I want to participate in that arrangement.
Nor do I think it is in the collegial spirit we have
enjoyed in this group to date.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: Holly Raiche [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net">mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net</a>]
<br>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:43 PM <br>
To: Kiran Malancharuvil <br>
Cc: McGrady, Paul D.; Carlton Samuels; PPSAI <br>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI - Reveal requests <br>
<br>
Kiran and Paul <br>
<br>
I am a bit disappointed by your responses. What Carlton
and I (and others) have been doing is simply explaining
what we believe should be required before personal details
of the beneficial registrant are revealed. It is
absolutely in line with basic privacy law and very much in
line with the discussions that have taken place - viz.,
what the requestor should provide by way of information,
and some confirmation of the status of the requestor such
that the reveal request is by an individual with the
authority and knowledge to do so. <br>
<br>
That is not dogma and it is not unreasonable. <br>
<br>
Holly <br>
<br>
<br>
On 31 Mar 2015, at 12:28 pm, Kiran Malancharuvil <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com">
<Kiran.Malancharuvil@markmonitor.com></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I also eagerly await a
clarification. <br>
<br>
If there are members of the group that view their
opinions as dogma, rendering discussion and attempts a
reach a compromise useless, I can think of a lot better
ways to use my time.
<br>
<br>
K <br>
<br>
Kiran Malancharuvil <br>
Internet Policy Counselor <br>
MarkMonitor <br>
415-419-9138 (m) <br>
<br>
Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. <br>
<br>
On Mar 30, 2015, at 6:07 PM, McGrady, Paul D. <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:PMcGrady@winston.com">PMcGrady@winston.com</a><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:PMcGrady@winston.com"><mailto:PMcGrady@winston.com></a>>
wrote:
<br>
<br>
Hi Carlton, <br>
<br>
What do you mean when you say "cannot be refuted in good
reason"? I'd like to continue the dialog, but not if
you will have labeled me unreasonable in advance for
doing so. Thanks in advance for your
thoughts/clarification.
<br>
<br>
Best, <br>
Paul <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@i">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@i</a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://cann.org">cann.org</a>>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
On Behalf Of
<br>
Carlton Samuels <br>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 7:04 PM <br>
To: Holly Raiche <br>
Cc: PPSAI <br>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI - Reveal requests
<br>
<br>
Holly's intervention cannot be refuted in good reason. <br>
<br>
FWIW, our objective ought to be to get to a place where
reasonable men and women can accommodate each other's
competing and diametric needs without resorting to the
court house. That requires balance.
<br>
<br>
It is reasonable to assume a P/P registration, properly
constituted <br>
and all rules applied, is effected for cause. [Since
2010, I have <br>
personally abandoned my position to deny P/P
registration to <br>
businesses and allow only individuals. I now support <br>
non-discrimination for P/P registrations, so long as the
rules apply <br>
equally, across the board. The fundamental idea is one
need not know <br>
the reason for such a registration, so long as the rules
are <br>
conserved.] <br>
<br>
Following on, it is compelling that for a disclosure
and/or reveal, it must be the agent alleging violation
of rules, process or law that must demonstrate that it
is good and reasonable to disclose and/or reveal.
<br>
<br>
We are trying to avoid going to court - which is always
open to the IP community or anyone else! - on the basis
that a reasonable being will look at the information
provided in support of the allegation and agree a
disclosure and/or reveal is/are both reasonable and
necessary. Trust and verify. <br>
<br>
There cannot be a trust deficit from the requestor's
side. Attestation of standing to make the request is an
element of trust. Some worthy must stand up, ready to be
counted. I don't care if its a lawyer, ranking officer
or general poohbah. Just someone - someone - that
inspires trust. <br>
<br>
-Carlton <br>
<br>
<br>
============================== <br>
Carlton A Samuels <br>
Mobile: 876-818-1799 <br>
Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment &
Turnaround <br>
============================= <br>
<br>
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Holly Raiche <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net">h.raiche@internode.on.net</a><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net"><mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net></a>>
wrote: <br>
Folks <br>
<br>
Could we go back a bit please to remember, that
originally, Whois was just a set of protocols for
communications between computers back in the days of
ARPAnet (apologies to those who were on the Whois Review
team - who know this) When ICANN was established, one of
the things it took over was Whois - and it eventually
became something it had not been - a public repository
of personal information. It created that fundamental
conflict between the transmogrified requirement on
registrars to publish personal information of
registrants as against the fundamental rights of
individuals to protect their personal information unless
there are established and accepted reasons otherwise.
The EWG is ICANN's attempt to address that conflict -
between information that can be made public, information
that should not be public and information that should be
revealed in limited circumstances to accredited
individuals. And until EWG recommendations are worked
through and implemented, we ar
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
e <br>
<blockquote type="cite"> still dealing with the inherent
conflict between a right to privacy and circumstances in
which there is a countervailing obligation to reveal
personal information. But the starting point must always
be to protect privacy rights UNLESS there is an acceptable
and evidenced reason to reveal that information. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">What we are working through, as I
understand it, is situations which we can all agree,
amount to the evidenced based, prima facie reason for
revealing personal information. Law Enforcement is the
easy bit, at least in theory. While the details need to
be worked through, I haven't heard anyone object to
revealing personal information when we are talking about
either serious abuse of the DNS or tracking down
criminal activity. The IP cases are more difficult.
However, I think we have made really good progress in
setting out what a requestor should provide to a service
provider so that the evidenced, prima facie case is made
out. The last bit is to insist that the request is
genuine, that whomever is making the request has
seriously considered the facts and believes there is a
prima facie case of infringement. <br>
<br>
I think we have all become aware of situations where
automated notices are generated alleging infringement.
Clearly, that must question the extent (if any) that
serious consideration has been given as to whether there
has been infringement. So if we are all to agree on the
sorts of information that a requestor must provide to a
service provider, we need to be sure that the
information has, in fact, been considered and signed off
- not by a computer program but by a real and
responsible person who has enough responsibility in the
organisation to take responsibility for what would
otherwise be an infringement of privacy rights. It is
not about an equality between requestor and beneficial
registrant. The registrant has - a priori - the right
to the protection of their personal information. The
onus is fairly and squarely on the requestor to credibly
establish the prima facie case to infringement of those
rights to privacy. As I have said, the language we have
worked thr
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
o <br>
<blockquote type="cite"> ugh goes a long way to meeting
that. What we are asking for is that the PERSON who
stands behind such requests has enough authority within
the organisation to do so. 'Authorised legal
representative' has been suggested. Happy if other words
can be found. But what we want is for there to be a real,
credible individual with the responsibility that can back
up each individual request.
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">End my rant <br>
<br>
Holly <br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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