<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Times New Roman \,serif";}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;
color:black;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.PlainTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Plain Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Plain Text";
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;}
span.EmailStyle24
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle25
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle26
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
span.EmailStyle27
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle28
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:384842878;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:1576711812 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:697780031;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:439417030 67698705 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-text:"%1\)";
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:1.0in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level2
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:1.5in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level3
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
margin-left:2.0in;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l1:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:2.5in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level5
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:3.0in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level6
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
margin-left:3.5in;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l1:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:4.0in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level8
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:4.5in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1:level9
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
margin-left:5.0in;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l2
{mso-list-id:1881243384;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:1938952504 67698705 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l2:level1
{mso-level-text:"%1\)";
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:1.0in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l2:level2
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:1.5in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l2:level3
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
margin-left:2.0in;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l2:level4
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:2.5in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l2:level5
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:3.0in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l2:level6
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
margin-left:3.5in;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l2:level7
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:4.0in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l2:level8
{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:4.5in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l2:level9
{mso-level-number-format:roman-lower;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:right;
margin-left:5.0in;
text-indent:-9.0pt;}
@list l3
{mso-list-id:1899705828;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:1321861246 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693 67698689 67698691 67698693;}
@list l3:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:40.5pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l3:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:76.5pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l3:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:112.5pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l3:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:148.5pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l3:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:184.5pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l3:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:220.5pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l3:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:256.5pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l3:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:292.5pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@list l3:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:328.5pt;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">If we’re going down this path, Todd’s language I think is better – more clear, concise, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 7, 2015 8:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tx to Todd and Volker for the discussion. I have to admit I am torn. On the one hand, I think it is very important to clarity that we are talking about human rights concerns -- the "complex speech cases" or as Carlton has said "the fringe
cases." On the other hand, I recognize that there is a reluctance to use the words "human rights." I also see Todd's balance and wording to address clearly and specifically the complex issues we have discussed for so long.
<br>
<br>
I like Todd's new phrasing below:<span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">“that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found,
</span><span style="color:#44546A">specific</span><span style="color:red"> facts and circumstances showing
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">that the Requestor’s trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer’s contact details
</span><span style="color:red">solely </span><span style="color:#1F497D">for the purpose of contravening the Customer’s human rights
</span><span style="color:red">(e.g., freedom of expression).</span><span style="color:#44546A">”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red"><br>
</span><span style="color:#330033">Building on Volker's revised phrasing, does the following cover the same topics and strike a new balance:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">“that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found,
</span><span style="color:#44546A">specific</span><span style="color:red"> information, facts and/or circumstances indicating
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">that the Requestor’s trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer’s contact details
</span><span style="color:red">mainly </span><span style="color:#1F497D">for the purpose of contravening the Customer’s
<s>privacy</s></span><s><span style="color:red">.</span></s><span style="color:#44546A">
</span><span style="color:#009900">legitimate rights and protections (e.g., freedom of expression and freedom of association).</span><span style="color:#44546A">” [with a descriptive paragraph in the Policy to describe the complex/difficult cases we (PPSAI)
intended to be covered and included.]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:13.5pt"><br>
Todd? Volker? All?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Best,<br>
Kathy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thank you Volker. Would be interested to hear what others have to say, but I’m OK with the changes that you’ve outlined below except for the change from “human rights (e.g., freedom of expression)” to “privacy.”
Several thoughts on that one:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:40.5pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">I specifically included the reference to “freedom of expression” per Kathy’s request in our call last week to make that explicit, so I’d want to hear her thoughts before we remove it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:40.5pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">There’s been a general sentiment – expressed most recently by Stephanie in our 3-24 call – that some reference to the human rights “edge cases” that we’ve been discussing needs to be explicit in the
document. I think there are two options on the table to do so: 1) do it here; or 2) do it in the much longer “appendix” on human rights/complex case advisory group that we discussed earlier. As I’ve argued on the calls and below, I think that this option
more exactly and unambiguously addresses the “edge case” concerns than did the previous appendix (or the previous “clear and convincing” language in III(C)(5), for that matter). So if by removing the reference to human rights here, we instead have to go back
to square one on discussing and debating the longer appendix, I’d be against doing so.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:40.5pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="color:#1F497D">I think substituting “privacy” for “human rights” confuses the means and ends of what we’re trying to address, and makes III(C)(5) somewhat circular. By definition, any time there is a disclosure,
the beneficial user’s privacy is lessened to some extent. The language in III(C)(5) is not meant to preclude that as an end in itself – if it did, it would make the rest of the document moot. Rather, III(C)(5) precludes Requesters from submitting pretextual
complaints in order to then <b><i>misuse</i></b> the disclosure process that we’ve developed as an improper
<b><i>means</i></b> to a totally <b><i>different</i></b> <b><i>end</i></b>: namely, the end of somehow impinging on the Customer’s human rights. I think that we need to keep that distinction clear for III(C)(5) to work.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">My initial thoughts; happy to hear what others have to say.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Todd. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 02, 2015 1:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Todd, <br>
<br>
not having discussed this with anyone else, I'd feel more comforable with language along the lines of:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:#1F497D">“that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found,
</span><span style="color:#44546A">specific</span><span style="color:red"> information, facts and/or circumstances indicating
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">that the Requestor’s trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer’s contact details
</span><span style="color:red">mainly </span><span style="color:#1F497D">for the purpose of contravening the Customer’s privacy</span><span style="color:red">.</span><span style="color:#44546A">”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Solely is too strong, and needs to be toned down as even a partial connection to a potential violation would otherwise close this door.<br>
I removed human rights as this is mainly about privacy. <br>
Showing was also toned down to indicating. The provider is not a court, he cannot make legal determinations, but he can accept indications.<br>
Finally, information was added to facts and circumstances, as again, the provider cannot make factual decisions in every case and should be able to rely on information.<br>
<br>
VG<br>
VG<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 02.04.2015 um 18:15 schrieb Williams, Todd:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Following on our call on Tuesday, I’ve tried to incorporate the changes that others suggested to the language for III(C)(5) that I had proposed last week. New language below (changes in
</span><span style="color:red">red</span><span style="color:#1F497D">). Let me know if I didn’t capture any of what we discussed:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">“that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found,
</span><span style="color:#44546A">specific</span><span style="color:red"> facts and circumstances showing
</span><span style="color:#1F497D">that the Requestor’s trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining the Customer’s contact details
</span><span style="color:red">solely </span><span style="color:#1F497D">for the purpose of contravening the Customer’s human rights
</span><span style="color:red">(e.g., freedom of expression).</span><span style="color:#44546A">”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Also, just to reiterate what I mentioned on the call: yes, I did intend this new language in III(C)(5) to replace the old language in III(C)(5) (on the “slam dunk” standard) and the previous draft appendix on
human rights. For the reasons that I mentioned on the call and below, I think that this language more exactly and unambiguously addresses the concerns that we’ve been discussing, without otherwise disrupting the balance that the draft proposal has attempted
to strike.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Todd. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> Kathy Kleiman [<a href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com">mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 30, 2015 1:06 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Williams, Todd; Kiran Malancharuvil; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>; Metalitz, Steven; Graeme Bunton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I have been mulling over the wording that Todd proposed on Friday. I think it should be evaluated alongside the standard we were evaluating (a "clear and convincing") as a reason for disclosure -- and I would
like to hear what the Providers think. But I think it advances our discussion... tx Todd!
<br>
<br>
Kathy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/27/2015 5:45 PM, Williams, Todd wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">All:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I wanted to follow-up on the point that I raised below and in our call on Tuesday. To reiterate: I think that III(C)(5) can be more precisely drafted to address the concern that we’re dealing with – which, as
I understand it, is the risk that pretextual complaints may be brought for the purpose of violating at-risk users’ human rights. Assuming that is the risk that we’re trying to mitigate, what does everybody think of this proposed draft language:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">C. Disclosure can be reasonably refused for reasons consistent with the general policy stated herein, including but not limited to:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> (5) that the Customer has provided, or the Provider has found, specific evidence demonstrating that the Requestor’s trademark or copyright complaint is a pretextual means of obtaining
the Customer’s contact details for the purpose of contravening the Customer’s human rights.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Again, I think that more exactly and unambiguously addresses the risk that we’ve been discussing in the various hypothetical scenarios that Kathy and others have put forward. But I’m happy to discuss further
on Tuesday. Thanks as always.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><br>
Todd.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Williams, Todd<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 23, 2015 4:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kiran Malancharuvil; Kathy Kleiman; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>; Metalitz, Steven; Graeme Bunton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Yes, thank you Kathy for circulating. Two initial quick thoughts that I wanted to circulate to the WG now before the call (though like Kiran, I'd want to reserve comment on other portions as I review):<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]>The more that I’ve thought about III(C)(5), the more I think it’s a poor fit for what we’re trying to address. As I understand it from the hypotheticals that we’ve discussed, the concern is that complainants with improper motives
will use pretextual complaints to seek disclosure against vulnerable or otherwise at-risk beneficial users. But III(C)(5) doesn’t really address pretext or the subjective motives of the complainant at all. Rather, it simply outlines the standard to be used
in all cases. Perhaps having a higher standard could weed out some pretextual complaints. But not necessarily.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>We could certainly think of hypotheticals where the complainant may have pretextual or improper motives, but still puts forward a claim that on its face passes the III(C)(5) standard.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo6">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>On the other side, I’m sure we could also think of hypotheticals where the complainant has completely pure motives, but still has one or two parts of its trademark or copyright claim that it’s still trying to pin down (in fact, that
may be the very reason why it is seeking information on who the beneficial owner is).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in">I think III(C)(5) as currently drafted allows for disclosure in (1) but not (2) – which seems backwards to me. In other words, if we’re trying to fight pretext, let’s fight pretext. As it is, I think the draft
already does a good job of that:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo8">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>I(B)(v) contemplates revoking access for having filed a pretextual complaint.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo8">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>I(B)(vi) contemplates Providers sharing information about pretextual complaints.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo8">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>II(A)(7), II(B)(7), and II(C)(7) all contemplate that complaints will be submitted under penalty of perjury (with all of the deterrence against pretext that goes with that).
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo8">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4)<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]>The entire Annex outlines possibilities for handling disputes that arise from pretextual complaints.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="text-indent:.5in">If we want to discuss as a WG whether the draft should do more on pretext, or perhaps add some language about pretext to III(C)(2) or III(C)(3), we can. But I think that trying to fit that square peg (pretext
concerns) into a round hole (the III(C)(5) standard) isn’t the best way to do it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText" style="margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]>I like your edits Kathy to III(D), but can we as a WG agree to remove the brackets from III(D)? I’m not quite sure why it’s still bracketed. We’re already editing it (which seems pointless if it might just go away). And without
III(D), the entire rest of the document – which we’ve now spent weeks trying to get to a place approaching consensus – is moot.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Thanks as always.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><br>
Todd. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kiran Malancharuvil<br>
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 2:23 PM<br>
To: Kathy Kleiman; <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>; Metalitz, Steven; Graeme Bunton<br>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Hi Kathy,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Thanks for forwarding this to the group, and special thanks for forwarding with enough time to review before the call!
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">We can certainly discuss in more depth on the call tomorrow, but I am not a fan of the changes in Section II. I'm concerned about the level of minutiae in the language, and I'm wondering how and why that level of micromanagement will
be helpful/probative information to the Service Provider. In very large companies, the trademark owner/president/VP/partner, etc. isn't actually involved directly in the enforcement activity. It should be enough to demonstrate agency, as the previous language
did. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Perhaps I will have more later, but I wanted to float that to the group before the call.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Kiran<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Kiran Malancharuvil<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Policy Counselor<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">MarkMonitor<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">415.222.8318 (t)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">415.419.9138 (m)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><a href="http://www.markmonitor.com"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">www.markmonitor.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">From: <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">
gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:19 AM<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">To: <a href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>; Metalitz, Steven; Graeme Bunton<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Revised Reveal Doc<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Steve and I talked on Friday, and he asked me to circulate a Revised Reveal document -- which is attached. This document has three types of changes based on our discussion last Tuesday and subsequent research:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">1. To the title (reset pending further discussion) 2. To Section II, the Request Templates to clarify the requester and his/her direct knowledge of the alleged infringement and legal authority to represent the Requester, and 3. Annex
(reset to original pending discussion with drafters over the narrow goals and intents of this section)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">All other edits remain - to continue our excellent discussion of high standards for disclosure, human rights issues, etc. There is also much to discuss regarding follow-up processes (after the Request) including<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">a) when are appeals allowed and for whom, and b) how does a Provider challenge an alleged "wrongful disclosure" of its Customer's information?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Best and have a good rest of weekend,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Kathy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman \,serif""><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman \,serif""><br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>--------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>