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James, prior to you joining the group, we had discussed this at some
length. IN fact, I really thought that the many reasons why sorting
out the purpose of a registration is problematic had buried this
debate, but apparently not. Some of the issues raised, according to
my recollection were the following:<br>
<ul>
<li>names are registered prior to decisions about content</li>
<li>content changes over time</li>
<li>most countries regulate e-commerce in some fashion, so that
website commercial activity does not have to be regulated by
ICANN</li>
<li>ICANN should not be in the business of regulating content in
the first place (and sorting out who is extracting a material
consideration from a website in order to deny them the ability
to use a proxy registration is certainly a form of regulation)</li>
<li>definitions of commercial activity vary widely around the
world<br>
</li>
<li>bad actors will not declare, registrars cannot police this
matter</li>
<li>criminal prosecution is not dependent on WHOIS information</li>
<li>if this is really about the ability to detect market
information, ICANN should not be in the business of making
registrant information available for market purposes, it does it
for security and stability.</li>
<li>contactability remains, regardless of which registrant info
appears in WHOIS</li>
</ul>
<p>I am planning to reformulate these into questions to match the
questions on the other side, suggestions welcome. <br>
</p>
Stephanie Perrin<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2015-04-30 16:24, James Gannon
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
don’t see this as asking providers to enforce anything
similar to other questions when registering a domain, it’s a
self-reported assessment. All it does is add an additional
branch to the decision tree for eligibility, which will
already be there to determine eligibility due to the other
reasons listed below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The
registrant is asked will you be processing financial
transactions.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yes</span><span
style="font-family:Wingdings;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">à</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Will
you be using a 3<sup>rd</sup> party>No>Not eligible
for P/P. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yes</span><span
style="font-family:Wingdings;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">à</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Will
you be using a 3<sup>rd</sup> party>Yes>Eligible for
P/P.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I’m
not asking registrars to enforce law but to see if a more
finely grained eligibility process can be enacted. Or at
least is there is public support for more granularity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-James<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
Michele Neylon - Blacknight
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">mailto:michele@blacknight.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 30, 2015 8:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> James Gannon; Graeme Bunton; PPSAI<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Comment
Period and Section 1.3.3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">James<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">As
a registrar or PP service provider how am I meant to
assess this?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">It
doesn’t scale<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Seriously.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">If,
for example, there is an Irish operated website that is
not complying with Irish law then it would be up to the
ODCE (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.odce.ie/">http://www.odce.ie/</a>) to
enforce whatever needs enforcing, as it would be up to
the DPA to enforce any issues around data privacy etc.,
etc.,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Attempting
to force registrars and PP providers to make these kind
of evaluations is not going to work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Issues
like PCI-DSS compliance are matters that should be dealt
with by the DPA and the banks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Forcing
registrars and PP providers to start getting involved in
that kind of assessment isn’t viable<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Michele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div id="MAC_OUTLOOK_SIGNATURE">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Mr
Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Blacknight
Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Hosting,
Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.blacknight.host/">http://www.blacknight.host/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blog.blacknight.com/">http://blog.blacknight.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.blacknight.press">http://www.blacknight.press</a>
- get our latest news & media coverage<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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moz-do-not-send="true"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Intl.
+353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Direct
Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Social:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mneylon.social">http://mneylon.social</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Blacknight
Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside
Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland
Company No.: 370845<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:
</span>
</b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">James
Gannon<br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday 30 April 2015 07:45<br>
<b>To: </b>Graeme Bunton, "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>"<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Comment
Period and Section 1.3.3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
would personally like to see if there is public traction
for distinguishing between sites directly processing
financial truncations and sites who use 3<sup>rd</sup>
parties for processing financial transactions as this is
a very important distinction. A simple and I hope
non-controversial additional question to the ones below:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
so, should domains which use a third party to process
financial transactions (i.e Paypal, Stripe), and thus do
not directly process financial information, be subject
to the same restrictions? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There
are strong existing distinctions both in national laws
and in regulations such as PCI-DSS between these two
forms.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-James
Gannon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Graeme Bunton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 28, 2015 10:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> PPSAI<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI Comment
Period and Section 1.3.3</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB">Thanks to all WG members for a very
productive call earlier today(and to Steve for his
chairing acumen). The co-chairs and staff met this
afternoon to tie down two loose ends from the call.<br>
<br>
Regarding the deadline for public comments on the
Initial Report, we recognize there is considerable
support for extending the public comment period to 60
days instead of the standard 40 days on which we have
all been planning. We are prepared to agree to this,
but with the caveat that this will have repercussions on
the pace and intensity of our work once public comments
have been received. Specifically, if the public comment
deadline is extended until July 3 (60 days after our
publication date of May 4), we will need to plan on at
least weekly calls throughout July and August, some of
which may need to be more than an hour in length, to
review these comments and move toward a Final Report.
Otherwise, we jeopardize the prospects for getting the
Final Report in front of the GNSO council no later than
the Dublin ICANN meeting. As was noted on the call
today, many additional steps need to take place even
after this WG issues its Final Report before any new
accreditation system can be implemented, so the time
pressure imposed by the expiration of the Interim
Specification at the end of next year is already real.
<br>
<br>
Also, as previously announced over the past few weeks,
if any WG members (or group of members) wish to submit a
brief separate or additional statement for inclusion in
the package posted for public comment next Monday, such
statements need to be received by staff no later than
Thursday, April 30. <br>
<br>
Lastly, the other loose end involves proposed revisions
to section 1.3.3 of the Initial Report, which were
presented on the call earlier today but which we did not
have time to discuss fully. We agree that this section
could benefit from some revision, but believe it should
take the form of greater concision, not additional
presentation of arguments for the divergent positions.
Thus we suggest that section 1.3.3 be revised to read as
follows:
<br>
<br>
---</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-GB">Although the WG agreed that the mere fact
that a domain name is registered by a commercial
entity or by anyone conducting commercial activity
should not preclude the use of P/P services , there
was disagreement over whether domain names that are
actively used for commercial transactions (e.g. the
sale or exchange of goods or services) should be
prohibited from using P/P services. While most WG
members did not believe such a prohibition is
necessary or practical, some members believed that
registrants of such domain names should not be able to
use or continue using proxy or privacy services.<br>
<br>
For those that argued that it is necessary and
practical to limit access to P/P services to exclude
commercial entities, the following text was proposed
to clarify and define their position: “domains used
for online financial transactions for commercial
purpose should be ineligible for privacy and proxy
registrations.”<br>
<br>
Public comment is therefore specifically invited on
the following questions: </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo3">
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-GB">Should registrants of domain names
associated with commercial activities and which are
used for online financial transactions be prohibited
from using, or continuing to use, privacy and proxy
services? </span><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo3">
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-GB">If so, will it be useful to adopt a
definition of “commercial” or “transactional” to
define those domains for which P/P service
registrations should be disallowed? And if so, what
should the definition(s) be?”</span><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo3">
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;line-height:150%;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-GB">Will it be necessary to make a
distinction in the WHOIS data fields to be displayed
as a result?</span><o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal"><span
style="font-family:"Times New
Roman","serif"">---<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Graeme Bunton & Steve Metalitz<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>_________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Graeme Bunton<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Manager, Management Information Systems<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Manager, Public Policy<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tucows Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>PH: 416 535 0123 ext 1634<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
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</div>
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