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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi John,<br>
Thanks, but I think the "and" is correct and I would leave "as
is."<br>
<br>
What I do object to though, is the conclusion of Kiran's statement
which, although a Minority Statement, represents itself [as
soliciting input on behalf of the entire PPSAI WG. <i><b><br>
<br>
</b>Steve, Graeme and Mary, <br>
</i>I strongly request a change of "The PPSAI Working Group
therefore desires public comment" to "The drafters of this
supplemental statement desire public comment..." <br>
(current text)
<span style="font-family:Calibri">"The PPSAI Working Group
therefore desires public comment on the issue of encouraging
transparent,
non-anonymous WHOIS data for persons and entities engaged in
active
transactional commercial activity and provides the
above-referenced </span><a
href="https://www.legitscript.com/download/White_Paper_-_Commercial_Use_-_Jurisdictional_Analysis-May_11_2014.pdf"><span
style="font-family:Calibri">white paper</span></a><span
style="font-family:
Calibri"> as background for consideration."</span><br>
We (as a whole WG) desire public comment on the issue as framed in
the main report. <br>
<br>
Please confirm that this will change because Kiran's statement
speaks only for its group.<span style="font-family:
Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span>
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Tx,<br>
Kathy<br>
:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADW+euuKs-dFJ+=o=6+tnOJSAYnN5X88GoJ_qrXJ6zX15d26Rg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Hi Kathy,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Thanks for this. No
objection here. One clarification: Is "mothers <i>and</i> seniors"
accurate, or should it be "mothers <i>or</i> seniors"? I
think the way it is currently written, someone could
interpret you to be talking about mothers who are also
senior citizens, which can certainly be true in the literal
sense, but I believe that your intent is to be broader and
note that while some home-based business are (impliedly)
merely run by men or young folk, that some home-based
businesses are run by mothers, while others are run by
seniors, irrespective of their gender. I just wonder if the
disjunctive might be better than the conjunctive in this
particular case?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Thanks!</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#073763"
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">John
Horton<br>
President and CEO, LegitScript</font>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px
0.0px;font:12.0px Helvetica"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin:0px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica"><b><font
color="#444444">Follow</font><font
color="#0b5394"> </font><font
color="#000000">Legit</font><font
color="#0b5394">Script</font></b>:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com"
style="font-weight:normal"
target="_blank"><font
color="#cc0000">LinkedIn</font></a>
| <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript"
style="font-weight:normal"
target="_blank"><font
color="#6aa84f">Facebook</font></a>
| <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://twitter.com/legitscript"
style="font-weight:normal"
target="_blank"><font
color="#674ea7">Twitter</font></a>
| <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.youtube.com/user/LegitScript"
style="font-weight:normal"
target="_blank"><font
color="#bf9000">YouTube</font></a>
| <font color="#ff9900"><u><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blog.legitscript.com"
target="_blank">Blog</a></u></font>
|<font color="#ff9900"> <font
style="font-weight:normal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts"
target="_blank">Google+</a></font></font></p>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 2:04 PM,
Kathy Kleiman <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com" target="_blank">kathy@kathykleiman.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Dear Graeme, Steve,
Mary and All,<br>
Attached please find our supplemental statement for
inclusion in the Interim Report. Mary, could you please
use the attached Word version as it has the formatting
and highlights we seek to show in the published version.
<br>
<br>
I include a pasted version below for easy reading.<br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">Statement
of Kathy Kleiman, James Gannon and Stephanie Perrin,
Members of the Noncommercial Stakeholders Group</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri"><br>
We respectfully submit that Section 1.3.3, 1.3.3, <b>Specific
Topics on which there is currently no consensus
within the WG</b>, of this PPSAI Executive Summary
and Interim Report is incomplete.<span> </span>There
are a number of topics on which there is currently
no consensus within the WG and which need
considerable work. These are issues well known and
deeply discussed. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">For
the purposes of clarity and to lend depth to the
comments and discussion to come, we submit this
statement of how we would like to see Section 1.3.3
written. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">1.3.3,
<b>Specific Topics on which there is currently no
consensus within the WG</b> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">1.3.3.1
REVEAL</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">The
WG’s has not yet reached final preliminary
conclusions on key details of its “Reveal”
recommendations (See Annex E of the Interim Report).
There are many details still under discussion and
for which the WG has not reached consensus. These
include: </span></p>
<p
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.75in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:Calibri">-</span><span
style="font-family:Calibri"> </span><span
style="font-family:Calibri">What remedies should a
Customer be allowed in the event that a Reveal
Request was falsely made or the data was improperly
used (current recommendations provide mechanism only
for Provider action)? </span></p>
<p
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.75in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:Calibri">-</span><span
style="font-family:Calibri"> </span><span
style="font-family:Calibri">Should Requestors be
allowed to escalate each and every rejection of a
Reveal Request to a 3<sup>rd</sup> party forum, or
should the WG seek to adopt reasonable standards and
thresholds for such appeals to avoid unnecessary and
time-consuming appeals?<span> </span>(Note: a
Request for Reconsideration is already a part of the
recommended process the WG has agreed to by
consensus.)</span></p>
<p
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.75in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:Calibri">-</span><span
style="font-family:Calibri"> </span><span
style="font-family:Calibri">What rights and
protections should a Customer be allowed and
encouraged to forth in her/his/its own defense to
provide a reasonable defense for maintaining
her/his/its privacy, even in the face of a copyright
or trademark infringement allegation?</span></p>
<p
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.75in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-family:Calibri">-</span><span
style="font-family:Calibri"> </span><span
style="font-family:Calibri">How can Customers be
protected from extraterritorial requests from Law
Enforcement from outside their country, when the use
of their domain name is for legal purposes in their
own country, but perhaps purposes deemed illegal in
other countries [Note: even Interpol refuses to act
across national lines in matters of political,
military, religious and racial issues because of the
enormous differences of law. Article 3, Interpol
Constitution]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri"> Input
and comments would be helpful on these issues. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">1.3.3.2
THE COMPLEXITIES OF INTRUDING INTO NATIONAL LAW</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">Although
the WG agreed that the mere fact that a domain name
is registered by a commercial entity or by anyone
conducting commercial activity should not preclude
the use of P/P services<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="#14d0c268aac32126__ftn1"
name="14d0c268aac32126__ftnref1" title=""><span><span
style="font-family:Calibri"><span><span><span>[1]</span></span></span></span></span></a><span><span
style="font-family:Calibri">[1]</span></span>,
there was disagreement over whether domain names
that are actively used for commercial transactions
(e.g. the sale or exchange of goods or services)
should be prohibited from using P/P services. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">While
<b>most WG members </b>did not believe such a
prohibition is necessary or practical, some members
believed that registrants of such domain names
should not be able to use or continue using proxy or
privacy services. [1]</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Calibri">Other members of the
WG noted that fundraising and membership drives
are often performed by the very groups and
organizations seeking privacy/proxy registration
for protection, including minority political
groups, minority religious organizations, ethnic
groups, organizations committed to change of
racial policies, gender orientation groups, and
publications engaged in freedom of expression.
These groups and their representatives note that,
in the laws of their countries, the mere
collection of a donation or membership fee does
not change their status from “non-commercial” to
commercial. Others noted that “non-profit” status
is limited to only a few countries. </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Calibri">Further, many of
organizations, small businesses, home-based
businesses (including those run by mothers and
seniors) conduct their financial transactions
through 3<sup>rd</sup> party e-commerce companies,
such as PayPal, and thus <i>are not processing
the financial transactions directly</i>.
Accordingly, many members in the WG submit there
is no reason to breach the proxy/privacy of
organizations and businesses purely and solely for
this reason. <span> </span></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Calibri">Many members many in
the WG submit that content regulation is far
beyond the scope of ICANN and properly the scope
of national laws – some of which has taken
initiatives in this area which are clearly defined
and properly limited in scope and application
(e.g., Germany).</span></b><span
style="font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">For
those that argued that it is necessary and practical
to limit access to P/P services to exclude
commercial entities, the following text was proposed
to clarify and define their position: “domains used
for online financial transactions for commercial
purpose should be ineligible for privacy and proxy
registrations.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">This
suggestion has been debated strongly by the members
of the WG and has not reached consensus as others
submitted that: </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-family:Calibri">"Attempting to
distinguish the end purposes of a domain
registration is not practicable for the purposes of
determining eligibility for privacy/proxy services,
and will unfairly discriminate against vulnerable
groups, entrepreneurs, small businesses and
organizations who wish to exercise their rights of
freedom of expression rights on the Internet.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">Input
requested on the full issues, including questions
below:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.75in"><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span> </span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Calibri">Should registrants of
domain names associated with commercial activities
and which are used for online financial transactions
be prohibited from using, or continuing to use,
privacy and proxy services? </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.75in"><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span> </span></span></span><span
style="font-family:Calibri">Is this type of content
regulation outside of ICANN's scope and mandate and
the proper province of national law?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span
style="font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<div><br clear="all">
<hr align="left" size="1" width="33%">
<div>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="#14d0c268aac32126__ftnref1"
name="14d0c268aac32126__ftn1" title=""></a><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">[1]</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">
The WG notes that the WHOIS RT had specifically
acknowledged that P/P services can be and are
used to address legitimate interests, both
commercial and non-commercial. </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
</div>
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target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg</a><br>
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