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Terri,<br>
<br>
I am not saying you did not have influence, but you were not at the
negotiation table. You were part of the group of external inputters
consulted by the negotiators and I thank you for making yourself
available for that. Yet you were not "at the table" for the
negotiations. The negotiations were a two-party thing.<br>
<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 18.08.2015 um 17:46 schrieb Terri
Stumme:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGvh5H6Eg_6rMxpwnL9SHJ+Wj-EbDWmuuSPvAUtZ1gv_DkR0OQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Volker,
with all due respect, the law enforcement coalition was
certainly involved in the negotiations. Law enforcement had
meetings with the registrars (ICANN staff present), and also
met with ICANN staff separately, as did the registrars, to
discuss and resolve the issues that arose from the original
RAA LE recommendations. I therefore object to your conclusion
that I was not at the table or part of the negotiations. I
was part of the LE coalition throughout the entire process. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">If the
definition as it is written in the RAA is not the common
understanding or accepted interpretation of the Registrars,
then the definition should be revisited for modification in
the RAA, not changed for purposes of the PPSAI report.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Volker
Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Terri, with all due
respect, the language was negotiated between ICANN staff
and registrars. LEAs may have had a hand in suggesting
language for inclusion, but was not at the table or part
of the negotiations. You were definitely not "involved in
the negotiations", but you were invited to provide input.
<br>
<br>
I therefore object to your conclusion that your
interpretation reflects what the parties intended. It may
very well have been the intention of LEAs when they
suggested the language, but it was not the common
understanding or accepted interpretation when registrars
discussed the language with ICANN and agreed to it. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>Am 17.08.2015 um 21:03 schrieb Terri Stumme:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><span>
<div class="gmail_default"><span
style="font-size:13px">In regard to
Section 3.18.2 of the RAA -- the language
is written and encompasses the exact
meaning of what was submitted by LE, and
accepted by the Registrars during the
LE/Registrar negotiations. During the time
that the RAA was negotiated, I worked for
the US Drug Enforcement Administration and
was involved in the negotiations.</span><br>
</div>
</span>
<div class="gmail_default">I believe it is
inappropriate to attempt to undermine the
intent of this section, or attempt to modify
it in any way -- the language means exactly
what it says and was intended to mean.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at
11:41 AM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Can we
rephrase the responses to sound more neutral
as to the result?<br>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">3.
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
Response to Question 3: </span> Does
proposed requirement to label p/p
registrations as such have an impact on
the benefit or value of such
registration and if what should be the
result of this</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">?
(Comments 18, 25, 31) </span></p>
<span> <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><br>
4. Response to Question 8:
Should providers be required to forward
all disclosure requests to customers,
unless prohibited by law? (Comments 17,
29) (I.e., should this feature of Annex
E be made applicable to all disclosure
requests, not just those relating to
intellectual property?) <br>
<br>
</span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">5.
Response to Question 8: Should the option
of registration cancellation in lieu of
disclosure be maintained or prohibited?
(Comments 24, 31) <br>
(Please also note that the cancellation of
the registration may not even be a tool in
the toolkit of the privacy provider,
depending on his degree of integration
with the registrar.)<br>
<br>
</span>The law enforcement authority as
discussed for the RAA was supposed to only
include official state-run law enforcement
bodies and such agencies designated by law
with certain powers comparable to official
LEAs. We have seen a small number of cases
where the language was later used beyond
what was intended to organizations that
received no more than a latter from a
government agency supporting that
organizations work.<br>
Our definition therefore should limit the
scope of LEAs to that originally intended
definition, not the unintended definition
the language currently allows.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Volker
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>Am 14.08.2015 um 23:50 schrieb
Metalitz, Steven:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Pursuant
to Mary’s request, I suggest the
following additional issues
raised in comments contained in
the public comment tool document
summarized, for possible
consideration by the WG: </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">3.
Response to Question 3: Should
the proposed requirement to
label p/p registrations as such
be dispensed with because it
reduces the benefit or value of
such registration? (Comments
18, 25, 31) </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">4.
Response to Question 8: Should
providers be required to forward
all disclosure requests to
customers, unless prohibited by
law? (Comments 17, 29) (I.e.,
should this feature of Annex E
be made applicable to all
disclosure requests, not just
those relating to intellectual
property?) </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">5.
Response to Question 8: Should
the option of registration
cancellation in lieu of
disclosure be prohibited?
(Comments 24, 31) </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In
addition, with regard to issue
#2 as summarized below (“law
enforcement authority”
definition): since the
definition in our initial report
was copied from the 2013 RAA,
can any registrars in our group
report on whether or not this
definition has thus far caused
difficulties in the RAA context
(e.g., have there been problems
in determining whether a
complaint from a
“quasi-governmental entity”
should be handled under RAA
section 3.18.2, with its 24-hour
time limit, rather than under
3.18.1)? </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Steve
Metalitz </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in
0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
target="_blank">mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mary
Wong<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August
11, 2015 4:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg]
Issue-spotting for the WG's
preliminary recommendations</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Dear
WG members,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">As
noted on the WG call earlier
today, please send to this
your suggestions for issues
arising out of specific public
comments received on the WG’s
Preliminary Recommendations #1
through #9 that you think
should be discussed by the
broader WG. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From
the call today, two issues
with Recommendation #1 were
identified for WG
consideration:</span></p>
</div>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:black"> <span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Whether
the definitions include
lawyers and law firms that
provide proxy registration
services for their clients
other than as a primary
business offering;</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="color:black"> <span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The
possible breadth/vagueness of
the proposed definition of
“law enforcement authority” as
including quasi-governmental
and other entities</span></li>
</ul>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Since
the WG Public Comment Review
Tool for these nine
recommendations have been in
circulation since 20 July,
please treat this email as a
“last call” for issue-spotting
concerning these nine
recommendations – as such, <b>please
send any issues you spot to
this list by Friday 14
August. Please also indicate
in your email which
comment(s)/commenter(s) you
are referring to as raising
the issue(s) you identify. </b>Note
that, as confirmed during the
WG call today, this exercise
is for purposes of
issue-spotting only at the
moment rather than final
resolution, which will depend
on further discussions, as
appropriate.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Staff
will compile the issues so
identified for review by the
WG on our next call.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Thanks
and cheers</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Mary</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Mary
Wong</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Senior
Policy Director</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Internet
Corporation for Assigned
Names & Numbers
(ICANN)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Telephone:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20603%20574%204889" value="+16035744889" target="_blank">+1
603 574 4889</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Email:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mary.wong@icann.org" target="_blank">mary.wong@icann.org</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
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</pre>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2"><span
style="background-color:rgb(159,197,232)"><i>Terri
Stumme</i></span></font>
<div><font size="2"><span
style="background-color:rgb(159,197,232)"><i>Intelligence
Analyst</i></span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2"><span
style="background-color:rgb(159,197,232)"><i>Terri
Stumme</i></span></font>
<div><font size="2"><span
style="background-color:rgb(159,197,232)"><i>Intelligence
Analyst</i></span></font></div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
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