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Dear All, </div>
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<p style="background-color: white;"><font size="3" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group
call held on </span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Tuesday 25 August 2015 at <span style="color:black">14:00 UTC at: </span></span></font><a href="http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03Zqpsu8-2FlAFxfTjFrQF-2BDS3NK-2FDeGB5H1p-2BPUcbJuYloT5WtA-3D-3D_QuA5zZR9ZZ7J1F2FeF-2FOsgm1hgIDcBrAX2P7Ezxmql7ckJc4ios1-2BxObAoz2rzLSI3c4QB1NGo7bw7XrBjpRCbz74w4vzk48UxZMFoBBQBQaQ0ePdiOjdJ30sQNHkokOf-2F2p-2FBvMgKvMhzp-2B4u8fP-2BRrSytHe2KCf2HpQmtSbpezMgNTUG57PiORAPesOotpHA-2BC4pSmXJRsVmpbNaLqzlVFwaWKfkG8hBrOPQ-2FxfM8VTLsVfB50UJRLIceXIVz7fGGjWUeH7fM0aZVVLCwIkFA-2BO8lD7Kui-2B9KnJe0DiEHPitZkspwSNGjVR89AXldZW0yHqJzVlP-2FuLX8xbyKJRrT8gHBMRZGi7pspV5fCPJ0L-2Fy3Oidcy186Kn7F38BWsErhlfMeTPmhSvO0y7kMrSCm5-2BLpiWe-2Fg-2BOiPvXwywC-2F0hQn87YTlMUJZ3ANUOhF3FEIn-2FNISKHglxLXWKa51C8-2BxWOIC2wrB4wPb68oNbjzbS2YGJzKCrUJBRVwDDCLc" style="font-size: 14px; line-height: 19px;"><font face="Calibri">http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-25aug15-en.mp3</font></a></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">On page</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">: </span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#aug</span></a><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">:</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/</span></a><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3"> <u>Attendees:</u> <o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Graeme Bunton RrSG<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Val Sherman IPC<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Kathy Kleiman NCSG<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Stephanie Perrin NCSG</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><font size="3"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; background-color: white;">Terri Stumme
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); background-color: white;"></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black; background-color: white;"> BC</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><font size="3"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Todd Williams IPC</span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Sara Bockey RrSG</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Roger Carney - RrSG<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Frank Michlick Individual</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3">Steve Metalitz – IPC<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: medium;">Volker Greimann - RrSG</span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3">Sarah Wyld – RrSG</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3">Darcy Southwell – RrSG</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3">James Bladel RrSG</font></span></p>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">David Hughes - IPC</div>
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<div><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 254, 254);"><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">Phil Corwin – BC</font></span></div>
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<div>James Gannon NCUC</div>
<div>Holly Raiche ALAC</div>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: medium; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Paul McGrady IPC</span></div>
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Dick Leaning, Individul</div>
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Susan Prosser RrSG</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font>Susan Kawaguchi – BC</font></div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Vicky Scheckler IPC</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Alex Deacon - IPC</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Luc Seufer RrSG</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">David Cake- NCSG</div>
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<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Carlton Samuels – ALAC</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: medium;">Griffin Barnett- IPC</span></div>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; background-color: rgb(254, 253, 253);">Kiran Malancharuvil - IPC</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: medium; background-color: rgb(254, 253, 253);">Osvaldo Novoa – ISPCP</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: medium;">Rudi Vansnick – NPOC</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: medium;">Lindsay Hamilton-Reid RrSG</span></div>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><font face="Calibri" size="3"><u><span style="color: black;">Apologies :</span></u></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Don Blumenthal - RySG</font></p>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Michele Neylon - RrSG</span></div>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><font size="3"><u><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">ICANN staff:</span></u></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Marika Konings</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Mary Wong</font></span></p>
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<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Amy Bivins </span></div>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="3">Nathalie Peregrine</font></p>
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<span lang="FR" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3"> <o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Mailing list archives:</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br>
</span><a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/</span></a><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Wiki page:<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg</span></a><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><font size="3">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">Kind regards,</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p><font size="3"> </font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3">Nathalie<o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"> <b><u>Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday
</u></b></span><b><u><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">25 August 2015</span></u></b></font><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="font-size: 14px;"><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: medium;">Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the PPSAI WG call on the 25th August 2015</span></font></p>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Holly Raiche:So how was the tea?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Haven't tried it yet, still too hot</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Hi All, good afternoon from rainy Ireland</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Stephanie Perrin:Should we all buy new raincoats before Dublin, James? Sounds wet....</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Holly Raiche:Does it ever not rain in Ireland!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes please bring waterproof clothing in October</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Haha basicaally no =)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Alex Deacon:morning all.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Dick Leaning:noted :-)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Bladel:Sorry, but I cannot hear Alex.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Very quiet</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Holly Raiche:Sounds almost under water</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Nathalie Peregrine:Alex Deacon's comments might not be captrued on the recordings, he is too faint</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Nathalie Peregrine:*captured</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Subteam site: <a href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=54691534">https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=54691534</a></div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes I think that the important thing here is the differentiation between a request and a legal requirement (Eg. Nat Sec Letter, Gag order)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> steve metalitz:Note that the draft recommendations Val is describing appear in the summary section of the document beginning on page 11</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Alex Deacon:summary is that I plan to send a draft set of recommendations and proposed updates to the report for Question 1 for review this week. </div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Thanks, Steve - apologies, I should have noted that for everyone!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Stephanie Perrin:lost sound for quite a while there</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Just you Stephanie, i think.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:And Privacy law may also apply in some jusrisdictions</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Alex I think your mic is open</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Luc Seufer:I am hearing an echo and a washing machine</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Think it's gone now, not sure who or what it was</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Alex Deacon:should be closed now. </div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Perfect thanks!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:I have discovered swiping right on a macbook trackpad now goes back to the last page loaded oops!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Graeme Bunton - RrSG:Can we make sure that lands on Sub team 3s plate Mary?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Got it</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> steve metalitz:For example our recommendations 6-8 deal with disclosure of p/p service provider policies. The tentative recommendations from the subgroup fon qs. 2 and 3 support these. </div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> steve metalitz:subgroup on 2 and 3</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Dick Leaning:James is correct- same type of thing in the UK</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes essentially we shouldnt get invoved in national law issues.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Just point them to lookat their own jurisdictions</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> steve metalitz:@Stephanie can you give a specific example of a case where providers would be required by law to disclose to customer that there had been a request from law enforcement? </div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Holly Raiche:I think what we are doing is have aa baseline set of rules - providers can have terms of service aove that</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Holly Raiche:'above'</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Stephanie Perrin:yes, needs to be applicable law...includes international</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Bladel:No objection to Paul's change. I thin kthat mirrors language in the RAA.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Holly Raiche:applicable is fine</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Luc Seufer:I am fine with applicable it's more comprehensive</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Paul McGrady:Thanks!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Works for me</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Understood , I would oike to see providers enabled to make a call on some way of blanking out details when they provider determines its a genuine user but still wants to terminate.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Luc Seufer:a sentence with a "reasonnable" in bold letter comes to mind</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:@Phil, the WG's prelim rec #8 says providers must disclose in ToS "specific grounds upon which a customer’s details may be Disclosed or Published or service suspended or terminated"</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: in response to the question to Stephanie above, there are privacy laws that require consent of the customer/patron/client before certain information is disclosed to law enforcement (especially where LE
is operating without a court order). In those cases, the customer would be notified (by law)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Bladel:Sorry....</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> steve metalitz:@Kathy, thanks, can you provide a citation?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Bladel:Yield to the queue</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:<a href="https://dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1467&ad=1#5">https://dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1467&ad=1#5</a>.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Bladel:Only if your P/P provider violated their accreditation agreement.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Stephanie Perrin:How does one prove that they violated it?</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> steve metalitz:WG Rec. 8 also requires provider to spell out whether customer is notified of disclosure request.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Stephanie Perrin:I think that just as there are allegations that bogus proxy service providers exist to hide crooks, bogus PP providers may crop up to entrap</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Val Sherman:Yes</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Val Sherman:sorry - -that was responding to Graeme</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Stephanie Perrin:This is why we need some kind of robust appeal mechanism, and not rely on contract law in each jurisdiction as discussed in the earlier question</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Holly Raiche:I hink we have to be careful to say LEA in the provider's jurisdiction</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Volker A. Greimann:Indeed, but there is no guarantee that the malware /spam/etc is distributed by the domain owner</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Volker A. Greimann:in most cases, it is likely a hacked wordpress</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Kathy Kleiman:@Steve: agree these are difficult questions without easy answers (non-LE/non-IP) -- but neither are they "implementation details" for ICANN staff. So another group would need to develop this through the PDP process...</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Stephanie Perrin:An LEA has to provide lawful authority to prevent disclosure to the individual in many jurisdictions. Regrettably, it is not always the case that the offiicer making the request is necessarily doing so according
to the letter of the law. This is why it is important to spell out best practices so that providers will at least be aware of what they should be requestioning in terms of authority, according to applocable law. Obviousl y</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Stephanie Perrin:this does not apply so much to the large providers.</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Stephanie Perrin:That was requesting, of course, sorry</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:Yes just need to keep tying everyhting together as we work along through the subteams</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Sub Team 2</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:On SEction 1.3.3 (online financial transactions)</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]:thanks all</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Paul McGrady:great call!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Luc Seufer:Merci</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Mary Wong:Thanks Sub Team 1 and everyone!</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> Val Sherman:Thanks all</div>
<div style="font-size: medium;"> James Bladel:Thanks</div>
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