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Perhaps, but I am defending, amongst other things, Ayden's use of
the expression "race to the top". <i>The Governance of Privacy:
Policy Instruments in Global Perspective </i>by Bennett and Raab
(MIT Press 2006) is a highly regarded volume by two highly regarded
political scientists. Their last chapter, containing their
conclusions on governance is entitled "International Privacy
Protection: A Race to the Top, the Bottom, or Somewhere Else?". It
is often quoted. I think it would be helpful, as I indicated
earlier, if we acknowledge this background tension on approaches to
privacy. <br>
Kind regards, <br>
Stephanie Perrin<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-03-28 16:02, Kiran
Malancharuvil wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Stephanie,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There
is a HUGE difference between acknowledging that something is
important to a field of study and crowning it the “top” and
calling it an “international best practice.” <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks,<br>
<br>
Kiran<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephanie Perrin via
Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 28, 2016 12:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy] Privacy
sub-group<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">With great
respect Greg, there is a field called privacy scholarship, and
in that field folks absolutely do pay a great deal of
attention to the rulings of the EU Court of Justice, and the
opinions of the Article 29 working group. You are free to
make the argument that thought leadership rests in the United
States or anywhere else (Cate, Westin, etc) but there are a
great many US privacy scholars who look to the EU for thought
leadership (Reidenberg, Schwartz, Solove, Rotenberg,
Nissenbaum, Gellman, I could go on but that might be
tedious). So I think it is not really fair to rule out recent
contributions if they are important, and the material Ayden is
introducing certainly qualifies as important in my book.<br>
The fact is that there has been a struggle going on for the
last 25 years between the US and Europe over the regulatory vs
non-regulatory approach to privacy. Lets explicitly put that
on the table and recognize our differences on this matter.
<br>
Kind regards<br>
stephanie<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2016-03-28 13:43, Greg Shatan via
Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Ayden,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">EU
rulings do not necessarily impact the law in the rest
of the world, much less California. I would not
categorize an attempt to embrace EU principles as a
"race to the top" nor would I categorize those
principles as "international best practices."
Certainly, we as a group should not adopt such
attitudes. But, hey, it's nice to know where you
stand. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Best
regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Greg
Shatan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
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cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="800">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:75.0pt;padding:0in 0in
0in 0in" valign="top" width="100">
<p
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><img
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part1.02050503.07000001@mail.utoronto.ca"
alt="http://hilweb1/images/signature.jpg" width="100" height="43"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="width:6.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
0in" width="8">
<p
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002E62">Gregory
S. Shatan | Partner<br>
</span></b><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">McCARTER
& ENGLISH, LLP<br>
<br>
245 Park Avenue, 27th Floor | New
York, New York 10167<br>
T: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:212-609-6873"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#1155CC">212-609-6873</span></a><br>
F: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:212-416-7613"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#1155CC">212-416-7613</span></a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gshatan%20@mccarter.com"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#225599">gshatan
@mccarter.com</span></a> | </span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#225599"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mccarter.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.mccarter.com">www.mccarter.com</a></a></span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> <br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#777777">BOSTON |
HARTFORD | STAMFORD | NEW YORK |
NEWARK <br>
EAST BRUNSWICK | PHILADELPHIA |
WILMINGTON | WASHINGTON, DC</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM,
Ayden Fabien Férdeline <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Hello
all,</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">I
would like to introduce some material
relating to the 'right to be forgotten' in
Europe. Here's
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://links2.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/Y6pG8Inj7cxRfeEQg?rn=IyZy9mLu5WYjlGQ5NWY2lmcw1CckBXLzRmct82cudmI&re=IyZy9mLu5WYjlGQ5NWY2lmcw1CckBXLzRmct82cudmI"
target="_blank">
a court judgement</a> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=152065&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=11654"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=152065&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=11654">http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=152065&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=11654</a></a>>.</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">The
protection of personal data in Europe is
seen as a fundamental right on equal
standing with all other human rights.
The Court of Justice of the European Union
has consistently held that any and all
data processing must be subject to
stringent proportionality assessments.</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">It
has been unsuccessfully argued that
allowing users to delete their data is an
affront to other fundamental rights such
as free speech. The Court of Justice of
the EU has consistently ruled that if and
when the privacy interests of the data
subject outweigh the public interest, the
individual should be able to enforce his
or her 'right to be forgotten'.</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><br>
This decision is something we should
carefully consider when looking at how
long we retain information for. Certainly
once a domain name has expired, it would
be difficult to justify under these
rulings the continued storage of the
sensitive personal information of
registrants.</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">I
appreciate that EU rulings do not
necessarily impact Californian law, but
hey, why not have a race to the top and
adopt international best practices in
privacy law… :-)</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Best
wishes,</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Ayden
Férdeline</span><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">On
Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 5:37 AM, David
Cake via Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Welcome
all of you to the Privacy
sub-team. Thanks to all of you
for volunteering.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Our
task is first to collect
information on privacy issues
relevant to registration data.
Then we will go on to decide
how best to present that
information for use of the
working group - we may
consolidate, summarise,
prioritise etc in order to
make the important information
easily available. Hopefully
the privacy experts on this
group will help us locate the
most important material, and
make it easily digestible to
the broader working group. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#222222">This
is a link to the RDS PDP WG
document that describes the
approach the WG agreed upon <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58730879/RDS-PDP-Proposed-Summary-Approach.pdf"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58730879/RDS-PDP-Proposed-Summary-Approach.pdf">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58730879/RDS-PDP-Proposed-Summary-Approach.pdf</a></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">At
this early stage, we are in
collection mode - please
send documents that you
think will be valuable to
the group. If you add a bit
more information for context
as to why you think it would
be useful, that will
probably be very helpful for
later work. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Looking
forward to working with you
all. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">_______________________________________________<br>
Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org"
target="_blank">Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-privacy"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-privacy</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="line-height:12.75pt"><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Ayden
Férdeline<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
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style="line-height:12.75pt"><span
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