<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Stephanie,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">With equal respect, I am fully aware of the field of privacy scholarship, and the related but distinct field of privacy advocacy. At no point did I state that attention should not be paid to rulings of the EU Court of Justice. (I will remain silent on the Article 29 Working Group....) Nor did I make any argument that any jurisdiction(s) have a monopoly or leading role in "thought leadership" in this area. So think it is not really fair to imply (actually, state) that I wanted to "rule out" any recent contributions. Casting them as 'the top" and "best practices" and other views as "objectively [sic] poor" is another thing entirely.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I also did not seek to cast this as a scholarly battle between "US" and "Europe" or over "regulatory vs. non-regulatory" approaches to privacy. Of course, as I've been told many times, "ICANN is not a regulator...." In any event, scholarship will only take us so far. Scholars have the luxury of not worrying about implementation or the concerns of varied stakeholders, and can engage in extended periods of beard-stroking before issuing pronouncements that echo only amongst the ivory towers (where free speech is being replaced by "trigger words" and "safe spaces" and the marketplace of ideas is being replaced by political correctness and the hounding of those with the temerity to disagree). We have no such luxury. So, while we should and must be well informed on scholarship and law (and legal scholarship), we also have to heed a variety of practical concerns coming from a variety of directions.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Best regards,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> <u></u></span></font></p><div style="font-size:12.8px"><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="800" style="width:600pt"><tbody><tr><td width="100" valign="top" style="width:75pt;padding:0in"><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><img width="100" height="43" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D1842F.8BD05270" alt="http://hilweb1/images/signature.jpg"></span></font><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></span></font></p></td><td width="8" style="width:6pt;padding:0in"><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></font></p></td><td style="padding:0in"><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><font size="1" color="#002e62" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Gregory S. 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<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Stephanie Perrin via Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
With great respect Greg, there is a field called privacy
scholarship, and in that field folks absolutely do pay a great deal
of attention to the rulings of the EU Court of Justice, and the
opinions of the Article 29 working group. You are free to make the
argument that thought leadership rests in the United States or
anywhere else (Cate, Westin, etc) but there are a great many US
privacy scholars who look to the EU for thought leadership
(Reidenberg, Schwartz, Solove, Rotenberg, Nissenbaum, Gellman, I
could go on but that might be tedious). So I think it is not really
fair to rule out recent contributions if they are important, and the
material Ayden is introducing certainly qualifies as important in my
book.<br>
The fact is that there has been a struggle going on for the last 25
years between the US and Europe over the regulatory vs
non-regulatory approach to privacy. Lets explicitly put that on the
table and recognize our differences on this matter. <br>
Kind regards<br>
stephanie<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<div>On 2016-03-28 13:43, Greg Shatan via
Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Ayden,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">EU rulings do not
necessarily impact the law in the rest of the world, much less
California. I would not categorize an attempt to embrace EU
principles as a "race to the top" nor would I categorize those
principles as "international best practices." Certainly, we
as a group should not adopt such attitudes. But, hey, it's
nice to know where you stand. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> <br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Best regards,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg Shatan</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Ayden
Fabien Férdeline <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:normal;word-break:break-word">
<table valign="top" style="width:100%;margin-top:6px" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" lang="container">
<tbody>
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<td style="line-height:1.31;color:#222;font-family:arial,sans-serif" valign="top">
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2">Hello
all,</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2">I would
like to introduce some material relating to
the 'right to be forgotten' in Europe. Here's
<a href="https://links2.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/Y6pG8Inj7cxRfeEQg?rn=IyZy9mLu5WYjlGQ5NWY2lmcw1CckBXLzRmct82cudmI&re=IyZy9mLu5WYjlGQ5NWY2lmcw1CckBXLzRmct82cudmI" target="_blank">a court judgement</a> <<a href="http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=152065&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=11654" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=152065&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=11654" target="_blank">http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=152065&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=11654</a>>.</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2">The
protection of personal data in Europe is seen
as a fundamental right on equal standing with
all other human rights. The Court of Justice
of the European Union has consistently held
that any and all data processing must be
subject to stringent proportionality
assessments.</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2">It has
been unsuccessfully argued that allowing users
to delete their data is an affront to
other fundamental rights such as free speech.
The Court of Justice of the EU has
consistently ruled that if and when the
privacy interests of the data subject outweigh
the public interest, the individual should be
able to enforce his or her 'right to be
forgotten'.</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2"><br>
This decision is something we should carefully
consider when looking at how long we retain
information for. Certainly once a domain name
has expired, it would be difficult to justify
under these rulings the continued storage of
the sensitive personal information of
registrants.</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2">I
appreciate that EU rulings do not necessarily
impact Californian law, but hey, why not have
a race to the top and adopt international best
practices in privacy law… :-)</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2">Best
wishes,</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font style="font-size:13px" size="2">Ayden
Férdeline</font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 5:37
AM, David Cake via Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Welcome
all of you to the Privacy sub-team.
Thanks to all of you for
volunteering.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Our task is first to collect
information on privacy issues
relevant to registration data. Then
we will go on to decide how best to
present that information for use of
the working group - we may
consolidate, summarise, prioritise
etc in order to make the important
information easily available.
Hopefully the privacy experts on
this group will help us locate the
most important material, and make it
easily digestible to the broader
working group. </div>
<div>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">This
is a link to the RDS PDP WG
document that describes the
approach the WG agreed upon <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_58730879_RDS-2DPDP-2DProposed-2DSummary-2DApproach.pdf&d=CwMBAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=gvEx8xF7ynrYQ7wShqEr-w&m=u1EVRiHe_hJc7jxNs5HvrA_j6PFk6zDIgTHzeV5HW-I&s=2ky2gNfugoilw7hdnuB-Li1SPS7b_5IFQFq5Dm1QeEk&e=" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58730879/RDS-PDP-Proposed-Summary-Approach.pdf" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58730879/RDS-PDP-Proposed-Summary-Approach.pdf</a> </p>
<div>At this early stage, we are in
collection mode - please send
documents that you think will be
valuable to the group. If you add
a bit more information for context
as to why you think it would be
useful, that will probably be very
helpful for later work. </div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking forward to working with
you all. </div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>David</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</font></span></div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="line-height:17.03px">Ayden Férdeline</div>
<div style="line-height:17.03px"><a href="tel:%2B44.77.8018.7421" value="+447780187421" target="_blank">+44.77.8018.7421</a></div>
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