<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hello All,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’d like to chime in here.</div><div class="">It is an important distinction being made by Kiran, and perhaps it is not the most useful way of approaching this exercise, to come in thinking there is an obvious answer, or best practice. There clearly is not a universally agreed set of principles we can turn to as of yet, which is why we find ourselves here trying to work through these issues as part of this PDP. It is something to be arrived at and it will require consideration of multiple stakeholder goals and needs. The tone we adopt at this early stage should reflect our willingness to be nuanced in this discussion and I think it will help us avoid a lot of roadblocks later on. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Having said that, I would like to once more draw attention to what Amr said.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>"Fair enough, but what I hope we as a group do take into consideration is how EU rulings impact our approach to how contracted parties that exist within the EU comply with contractual obligations with ICANN.”<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Whether EU rulings on privacy can be judged to be international best practice, is not the question we should be attempting to answer here, at least not first and foremost. What we should be attempting to answer, is if there is anything within those rulings, which places limitations on what proposals we can arrive at with regards to what information is shared and with who. Once we answer that question, we can address the further question of whether these limitations are problematic enough to require us answering the more fundamental question of which countries' laws do we classify as limiting factors on this PDP and ICANN’s work in general? As Greg has stated elsewhere, perhaps we will find it within our remit to assess all countries for their privacy regulations before coming to this decision. If we are approaching this PDP with the notion that the most constrictive (or some could say, the most protective) regimes will be our standard of measurement, then we can probably agree, the EU’s rulings on data protection and privacy will be of greater relevance to this PDP than the privacy regulations of a country that offers fewer such constrictions/protections, whether it be the US, or Pakistan. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think ultimately, we will have to answer the jurisdictional question at some stage, the question is whether we will choose to do it here and now. Will enough people within this process find EU privacy rulings too constrictive and worthy of causing ICANN contracted parties to have to ‘violate’?</div><div class="">If so, does ICANN even have the ability to contractually demand this violation on behalf of contracted parties? </div><div class="">These are big questions, and I by no means have an answer to them. But they naturally follow if we were to at some stage take issue with EU privacy rulings, whether we agree with Ayden that they count as international best practice or not. They are certainly of relevance, so thank you for bringing them up, Ayden.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Sana Ali</div><div class=""><a href="mailto:sana.ali2030@gmail.com" class="">sana.ali2030@gmail.com</a></div><div class=""><a href="https://ca.linkedin.com/in/sanaali2030" class="">https://ca.linkedin.com/in/sanaali2030</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 28, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Kiran Malancharuvil via Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class="">Stephanie,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class="">There is a HUGE difference between acknowledging that something is important to a field of study and crowning it the “top” and calling it an “international
best practice.” <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class="">Thanks,<br class="">
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Kiran<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext" class=""> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy-bounces@icann.org" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy-bounces@icann.org" class="">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Stephanie Perrin via Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, March 28, 2016 12:38 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy] Privacy sub-group<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">With great respect Greg, there is a field called privacy scholarship, and in that field folks absolutely do pay a great deal of attention to the rulings of the EU Court of Justice, and the opinions of the Article
29 working group. You are free to make the argument that thought leadership rests in the United States or anywhere else (Cate, Westin, etc) but there are a great many US privacy scholars who look to the EU for thought leadership (Reidenberg, Schwartz, Solove,
Rotenberg, Nissenbaum, Gellman, I could go on but that might be tedious). So I think it is not really fair to rule out recent contributions if they are important, and the material Ayden is introducing certainly qualifies as important in my book.<br class="">
The fact is that there has been a struggle going on for the last 25 years between the US and Europe over the regulatory vs non-regulatory approach to privacy. Lets explicitly put that on the table and recognize our differences on this matter.
<br class="">
Kind regards<br class="">
stephanie<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On 2016-03-28 13:43, Greg Shatan via Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" class="">Ayden,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" class="">EU rulings do not necessarily impact the law in the rest of the world, much less California. I would not categorize an attempt to embrace EU principles as a "race to the top" nor would I
categorize those principles as "international best practices." Certainly, we as a group should not adopt such attitudes. But, hey, it's nice to know where you stand. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" class="">Best regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" class=""> </span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"" class="">Greg Shatan<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002E62" class="">Gregory S. Shatan | Partner<br class="">
</span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" class="">McCARTER & ENGLISH, LLP<br class="">
<br class="">
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<a href="mailto:gshatan%20@mccarter.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:#225599" class="">gshatan @mccarter.com</span></a> | </span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#225599" class=""><a href="http://www.mccarter.com/" class="">www.mccarter.com</a></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"" class=""> <br class="">
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EAST BRUNSWICK | PHILADELPHIA | WILMINGTON | WASHINGTON, DC</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Ayden Fabien Férdeline <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">Hello all,</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""> </span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">I would like to introduce some material relating to the 'right to be forgotten' in Europe. Here's
<a href="https://links2.mixmaxusercontent.com/aMjjKHWxnLSD3SEwj/l/Y6pG8Inj7cxRfeEQg?rn=IyZy9mLu5WYjlGQ5NWY2lmcw1CckBXLzRmct82cudmI&re=IyZy9mLu5WYjlGQ5NWY2lmcw1CckBXLzRmct82cudmI" target="_blank" class="">
a court judgement</a> <<a href="http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=152065&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=11654" class="">http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=152065&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=11654</a>>.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">The protection of personal data in Europe is seen as a fundamental right on equal standing with all other human rights. The Court of
Justice of the European Union has consistently held that any and all data processing must be subject to stringent proportionality assessments.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">It has been unsuccessfully argued that allowing users to delete their data is an affront to other fundamental rights such as free speech.
The Court of Justice of the EU has consistently ruled that if and when the privacy interests of the data subject outweigh the public interest, the individual should be able to enforce his or her 'right to be forgotten'.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""><br class="">
This decision is something we should carefully consider when looking at how long we retain information for. Certainly once a domain name has expired, it would be difficult to justify under these rulings the continued storage of the sensitive personal information
of registrants.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""> </span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">I appreciate that EU rulings do not necessarily impact Californian law, but hey, why not have a race to the top and adopt international
best practices in privacy law… :-)</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">Best wishes,</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""> </span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">Ayden Férdeline</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 5:37 AM, David Cake via Gnso-rds-pdp-privacy <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">gnso-rds-pdp-privacy@icann.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">Welcome all of you to the Privacy sub-team. Thanks to all of you for volunteering.
<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""> </span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:4.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">Our task is first to collect information on privacy issues relevant to registration data. Then we will go on to decide how best to present that information
for use of the working group - we may consolidate, summarise, prioritise etc in order to make the important information easily available. Hopefully the privacy experts on this group will help us locate the most important material, and make it easily digestible
to the broader working group. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">This is a link to the RDS PDP WG document that describes the approach the WG agreed upon <a href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58730879/RDS-PDP-Proposed-Summary-Approach.pdf" class="">https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/58730879/RDS-PDP-Proposed-Summary-Approach.pdf</a> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">At this early stage, we are in collection mode - please send documents that you think will be valuable to the group. If you add a bit more information for context as to why you
think it would be useful, that will probably be very helpful for later work. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class=""> </span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">Looking forward to working with you all. <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#888888" class="">David<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">
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