[gnso-rds-pdp-purpose] Additional Information/question
Stephanie Perrin
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Wed Apr 27 07:45:23 UTC 2016
Sadly, I was not on that workteam. I recall pointing out that dividing
into subteams was not a good idea, (do you recall me trying to get out
of the privacy subteam, saying I needed to be on all the others? I bet
Rod might....) but I do not recall discussion of the 2013 RAA in
plenary....although I have a vivid memory of arguing with Michele (as
one does) when he said the 2013 was out of scope as it was in
negotiation. However, I do think us arguing about my (apparently but
not necessarily) faulty memory is fruitless and boring for all the
others who were not in the EWG. It was not, unfortunately, a recorded
discussion, and was quite non-transparent to others outside the process.
Also of course hard for those of us new to ICANN to refresh our
memories, absent an official record. Not the problem in this exercise,
thank goodness.
kind regards,
Steph
PS if the list of data elements was lifted straight from the RAA after
signing, then discussed in that subteam, I would not have recognized all
the other bits, eg escrow and retention, which are problematic...as you
can see, this could go on and on but I will indeed check my email
records just to find out how I missed this.
On 2016-04-27 2:36, Carlton Samuels wrote:
> Actually Steph, we made extensive use of RAA 2013 in one of the EWG
> subteams I worked.
>
> Lack of user identification, authentication and access control was
> fingered as major disabilities of the existing WHOIS protocol. Scott
> [Hallenbeck], Lanre [Ajayi] and myself were members of the subteam (if
> memory serves it was G) that examined all the data elements described
> in the RAA 2013 WHOIS dataset from an access perspective, identify
> their source[s] and classified them for sensitivity to data protection
> rules.
>
> That outcome was the basis for recommending the RDAP - then in final
> preparatory stage by the WEIRDS WG of the IETF - as fit and proper
> vehicle for processing registration data.
>
> Another EWG subteam (could have been D with Michele on it) examined
> the RAA WHOIS dataset from a collection perspective + added some
> elements not described therein but which we know were generated in the
> course of the user/registrar transaction. Scott and myself then mapped
> the elements from collection perspective against those from the access
> perspective in an effort to harmonize elements, all under colour of
> data protection rules to decide the elements that would be gated for
> access.
>
> These were fairly detailed pieces of work and I kept the worksheets.
> So no, I cannot agree we never examined the RAA 2013.
>
> Best,
> -Carlton
>
>
> ==============================
> Carlton A Samuels
> Mobile: 876-818-1799
> /Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
> =============================
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Stephanie Perrin
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
> I would actually disagree. We discussed the use cases for data,
> accepting those current uses as by and large legitimate. From a
> data protection perspective, it has been clear from the very
> beginning that many of the new purposes that registrant data were
> being put to, would not be permissible by law under the original
> purpose of WHOIS. We never looked at the collection instrument,
> (RAA) it was accepted as fait accompli. We did not go over the
> extensive collection of documents that we had received from the
> DPAs. So a thorough, tabula rasa discussion of the purpose of
> collection of registrant data is in order, in my view. And SAC
> 055 agrees with that view.
>
> Stephanie Perrin
>
>
> On 2016-04-25 17:34, Carlton Samuels wrote:
>> ...and FWIW, the Review Team's final report was a very important
>> substrate upon which the EWG's work was advanced.
>>
>> The EWG spent an inordinate amount of time resolving the question
>> as to whether there was a purposeful need for registration data
>> and if so, what should be collected, the standards for
>> collection, how it should be curated and the safeguards, why and
>> how it should be published and the mechanisms for publication.
>>
>> I say again, it would be a sign of malignancy to embrace any
>> attempt to bounce the rubble here. If there is new and original
>> insight of value to the end game, let it be heard.
>>
>> Otherwise, enough good minds and treasure are exhausted answering
>> those questions.
>>
>> Lets get on with it.
>>
>> -Carlton
>>
>>
>> ==============================
>> Carlton A Samuels
>> Mobile: 876-818-1799 <tel:876-818-1799>
>> /Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
>> =============================
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Kathy Kleiman
>> <kathy at kathykleiman.com <mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Marika and All,
>> I think my concerns run to (iii) and (v) below as the
>> limitations of certain documents (especially ones people
>> refer to often) have definitely been a part of the discussion
>> of this subgroup. I would note that certain document in the
>> summaries already contain some red highlighted notes, and I
>> would like to request that similar notes be added *within our
>> summary* of the Whois Review Team Final Report and within our
>> subgroup report to the full WG. Here are the bullet points
>> you requested (tx for asking!):
>>
>> - The Whois Review Team was///expressly barred //from looking
>> at the purpose of the Whois system/. It was allowed to look
>> only at ICANN's "existing policy relating to WHOIS" per the
>> Affirmation of Commitments signed between US Department of
>> Commerce and ICANN in 2009.
>>
>> - Even within that scope, the Whois Review Team Final Report
>> expressly recommended protection of privacy for commercial
>> companies, noncommercial organizations and individuals
>> (finding that each shared with us legal and legitimate
>> reasons for privacy including as-yet-unannounced mergers, new
>> movie names, unpopular religious, ethnic and policy views, etc).
>>
>> - The Whois Review Team Final Report advised ICANN to work
>> towards a standard of "contactability" /- reaching the
>> registrant by //some //means rather than //all means /- which
>> we wrote as: "ICANN should take appropriate measures to
>> reduce the number of WHOIS registrations that fall into the
>> accuracy groups Substantial Failure and Full Failure (as
>> defined by the NORC Data Accuracy Study, 2009/10..." p. 87.
>>
>> We were tasked with conveying to the full WG our
>> understanding of "purpose" as guided by these documents - and
>> these notes add key insights and understandings to it (as we
>> shared many times in presenting this Final Report to ICANN in
>> 2012).
>>
>> Best,
>> Kathy
>>
>>
>> On 4/24/2016 8:35 PM, Marika Konings wrote:
>>> Kathy, all, as a reminder, each sub-team is expected to answer the
>>> following questions in relation to the work it has undertaken:
>>>
>>> (i) Did this input inventory produce any insights to inform the WG¹s work
>>> plan?
>>> (ii) Which inputs are likely to be the most important [relevant] during WG
>>> deliberations and why?
>>> (iii) Which inputs, if any, generated the most discussion within the small
>>> team?
>>> (iv) Which inputs may be obsolete or super-ceded by subsequent work?
>>> (v) What input gaps, if any, may need to be addressed later?
>>> (vi) Other key takeaways from this input inventory the team wishes to
>>> share with the WG
>>>
>>>
>>> Your concern appears to fall under item v? If you would like to summarise
>>> your concerns in a few bullets, the sub-team can maybe use these to start
>>> building out the responses to the questions?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Marika
>>>
>>> On 22/04/16 15:13,"gnso-rds-pdp-purpose-bounces at icann.org on behalf of Kathy
>>> Kleiman"
>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-purpose-bounces at icann.orgonbehalfofKathyKleiman> <gnso-rds-pdp-purpose-bounces at icann.org on behalf of
>>> kathy at kathykleiman.com>
>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-purpose-bounces at icann.orgonbehalfofkathy@kathykleiman.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Susan and Lisa,
>>>> I have a question (which certainly does not have to be answered on a
>>>> Friday afternoon), but some deep concerns have been raised on this list
>>>> by people who helped created various documents and reports that we are
>>>> now evaluating. For example, I raised the fact that it was completely
>>>> out of scope for the Whois Review Team to evaluate the data collected in
>>>> Whois and the primary purpose for which it was created. By the
>>>> Affirmation of Commitments, we had to deal with the Whois system as it
>>>> existed (and had been passed to ICANN from the National Science
>>>> Foundation).
>>>>
>>>> We could not and did not address or deal with primary purpose. I think
>>>> this limitation and fact is critical to the understanding and evaluation
>>>> of the Whois Review Team report, especially as it applies to our
>>>> question of "purpose."
>>>>
>>>> How can this point be added to Whois Review Team Final Report summary -
>>>> perhaps in Additional Information? -- and to our discussion?
>>>>
>>>> Tx,
>>>> Kathy
>>>> _______________________________________________
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