[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] @EXT: RE: Use cases: Fundamental, Incidental, and Theoretical

[Terri Stumme]

Stephanie,

There are fusion centers for information sharing purposes, several in the
US, established since 9/11. (See:
https://www.dhs.gov/national-network-fusion-centers-fact-sheet).

While information sharing does occur among agencies (some work together
better than others), it does not occur in a consistent manner. Depending
upon which agency initiates the investigation, the type of crime being
investigated, as well as the individuals involved in the case, real
information sharing typically occurs when (if) a conflict arises among
agencies investigating the same individuals and/or organizations; a meeting
is held at the executive level to negotiate who will be the lead agency,
and what information is shared.



On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Thanks Dick.  I think you and Greg have made the point that intelligence
> services are generally not so quick to share their data with the dog
> catcher.  However, if you are going to offer offline tutorials, may we beg
> a digest of those tutorials for the list?  It is hard to get good
> information on these actual practices.  Some of the legislative and policy
> initiatives in western democracies to share data between investigative
> agencies, not to mention further investment in big data techniques for
> profiling without disclosure (not the technical term but I am sure you know
> what I am referring to) would lead one to conclude that such data sharing
> is well in hand.
>
> Best regards
>
> stephanie perrin
>
> On 2016-08-05 5:49, Richard Leaning wrote:
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> Not sure where to start on this response, i will try and keep it short.
>
> Am not sure that by speaking to one ex FBI agent and couple of Police officers in Sheffield is a true reflection of the Global LEA position on this WG. It concerns me greatly that you take this view.
>
> Its a big +1 to Greg Mounier, Greg Aaron and Terri.
>
> As an ex Senior Detective from the UK having just retired last year after 30 years service, spending the last 7 years or so involved investigating Cyber crime Nationally and Internationally within SOCA, NCA and then EC3 (European Cyber Crime Centre - Europol) am more than happy to spend some time with you outside this group to explain the difference between the Intelligence services and LEA.
>
> Also as am now be working for RIPE NCC (a RIR) as a Consultant am also happy at the same time, explain to you about the RIPE Database.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Dick
>
> Richard Leaning
> External Relations
> RIPE NCC
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4 Aug 2016, at 21:20, Rob Golding <rob.golding at astutium.com> <rob.golding at astutium.com> wrote:
>
>
> note that:
> Any customer of an RIR has its contact data published in RIR WHOIS
>
> Which is of course no different to saying "Any customer of a Registry (aka Registrar) has it's contact data published"
>
> And in practice it's _most_ customers of _most_ RIRs - lots of the lookups for certain regions just-don’t-work (tm) and with the amount of 'funkiness' that goes on with IPv4 routing post-runout, what details you see on an IP lookup at an RIR has little-to-no bearing now on who is actually using it
> - what you're able to see is "who should be (directly or indirectly) paying the RIRs fees"
>
>
> Yet IP Whois will usually only yield the webhost or the IS. How is having to ask them for the data any different from having to ask the registrar.
>
> I would say it's not any different at all in effect, but may be less likely to yield a response due to the limited "policy" capabilities when it comes to "unregulated" industries.
>
>
> Are LEAs lobbying for webhost and internet subscriber public whois?
>
> I feel I should suggest that they can probably just extract the data from the NSA or GCHQ or their-local-equivalent, so no need to make it "public"  ;)
>
>
> I will be interested in learning however law enforcement manages to do its job without this needed and useful data
>
> The caveats being that "useful" is subjective and "needed" depends on circumstances.
>
> I don't see anyone suggesting that there shouldn’t be methods in place so that Law Enforcement can do their job.
>
> I do however think that the concept of punishing everyone because there are a very small %age of "bad actors" is, in a civilised society, not even remotely appropriate.
>
> Rob
>
>
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-- 
*Terri Stumme*
*Investigative Analyst*
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