[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Mp3, Attendance & AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call 12 July 2016 16:00 UTC
Terri Agnew
terri.agnew at icann.org
Tue Jul 12 21:35:21 UTC 2016
Dear All,
Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 16:00 UTC.
Mp3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-12jul16-en.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03ZqpsvgRhF8anYZT-2Fu85DJG3jGxxVskBbkcuarDuZdKKIqCz2SI5RKVwB-2FAeG-2FNvnN8dqw-3D_nEX-2FaOijqgcJlSz5SkmueJu3tRbmaDiuX89gT35tStEeSHP9whdoceObpMxYsFLQddiMZpQjIv8dk6BsBGSJXH7VWN4SGLCJgbGKCk6E-2FTErjF4OKNQt65Dk9NF54IJ9kQpmDNySj7bbNz9G4dXi5BgbCZotTx8KNfyeB0z00f8KsMfETeTNKd7vy2kKI7tttQUIwid4NAhxXgT3nZYwmtT3AVeDpcusRHI2LLiBY7S1MMbxsXLgV-2FzVvzHwv4H6JIHHjRjy-2FGpRrvjTr-2BxzrWgh3YQzJsjpOERZ7rDUIKNAOJJMAh7CpahohjC5PVyFcA92Lcli46YMciOYhS0GZ62YjGzD-2BPVTHGRr6F8CCFeYChjjC4me2sWPp4NBtbCb-2F3AO7QIrVbQLqUSaNDIrcRrXNKdkchzlyZabS6f3GR8ptf2L3z4gzM4Am1rmyV1FxJb4GWTCoqNqqTnYd7kiIDi-2B1FGk95OjsTItpYFInVyt32S-2BMqqXZvpavjVSGtH4>
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov>
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/
Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/ix2OAw
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Terri Agnew
-------------------------------
Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday, 12 July 2016
Terri Agnew:Dear all, welcome to the RDS PDP WG call on Tuesday, 12 July 2016 at 16:00 UTC
Terri Agnew:meeting agenda wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/4wKbAw
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello Terri, Volker
Daniel K. Nanghaka:Hello Everyone
Daniel K. Nanghaka:Welcome back from Helsinki
Ayden Férdeline:Hello all
Vlad Dinculescu:Hi All
Andrew Sullivan:@Terri: note that, AFAICT, the "hover over" approach doesn't work on the Mac under Flash in Safari. Or at least, it doesn't here :)
Nathalie Coupet:Hi
Terri Agnew:@Andrew do you see the microphone on top tool bar?
Andrew Sullivan:Isn't it great that we have the Internet so that we can work easily while we are on vacation? :)
Andrew Sullivan:@Terri: yeah, the mic at the top works fine. It was just FYI
Richard Padilla:Hi all
Volker Greimann:Sorry I missed it: I must update my SOI: I am now also a board member at Nominet, a new gTLD registry and registry service provider
Ayden Férdeline:I can't hear you David
marksv [MSFT]:very soft
Fabricio Vayra:is it just me, or does audio keep dropping?
Terri Agnew:@David, you are difficult to hear, please let me know if a dial out is needed
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):very soft ... maybe typing in the chat window?
Jim Galvin (Afilias):cant hear David
David Cake:just wanted to sat
David Cake:say James has been having travel crises
Terri Agnew:@David, I will add James Gannon to the list of apologies
Daniel K. Nanghaka:The problem statement was meant to be reviewed in a joint meeting
David Cake:flights cancelled, trapped in airports, etc, might be on a plane currently
Daniel K. Nanghaka:This was to come up with a final problem statement
Ayden Férdeline:the draft problem statement is here - https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/gnso-rds-pbstatement-0 - but it is obviously a work in progress still
Daniel K. Nanghaka:Yes, that is right
Lisa Phifer:@Daniel, Ayden - do you expect to have a draft for the WG to review by next week's call?
Daniel K. Nanghaka:Yes, sure we can work towards having a draft by next week
Stephanie Perrin:My apologies for being late folks.
Daniel K. Nanghaka:The progress is not bad just waiting for feedback from other members
Ayden Férdeline:If someone has an example of a good problem statement, perhaps from another working group, I would find it useful to read.
Daniel K. Nanghaka:I agree with you Ayden
Ayden Férdeline:We all have different ideas around what a problem statement should look like. If there was a model we could turn to, that would be really useful.
Farell FOLLY:Hello All, apologies for being late...
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):we might have burnout ... even after 5 days it happens
Lisa Phifer:@Ayden, Daniel - PDP Issue Reports and the WG Charter usually serve that purpose for PDP WGs; I am not aware of a PDP WG that drafted a separate problem statement but will ask around
Ayden Férdeline:Thanks @Lisa
Stephanie Perrin:Are we allowed to add a day? Seems like the only possibility that makes sense. Need funding for the overnight though, if we are going to get a good turnout
Ayden Férdeline:I too like the idea of having two WG sessions in Hyderabad.
marksv [MSFT]:UASG usually meets half-day (or even all-day) on Sunday
Alex Deacon:regarding the problem statement I plan to spend some cycles this week to contribute my thoughts. We should strive to be as succinct as possible. i.e. 1 paragraph max.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):if we have 2 wG meetings ... is it possible to have 2or 3 days between?
Nathalie Coupet:It will be almost virtually impossible to participate remotely. Too bad.
Marika Konings:@Stephanie - if the meeting is taking place on day 1, hotel should already be covered for funded travellers
Lisa Phifer:@Nathalie, remote participation via Adobe Connect and audio will be provided
Stephanie Perrin:Thanks Marika. My concern, of course, is that many of us are also on Council so there is potential for conflicts, but not if day one is reserved for our purposes.
Nathalie Coupet:Yes, but the time will make it impossible to participate.
steve metalitz:IMHO a 7-day meeting is already too long and any add-ons should be resisted
Daniel K. Nanghaka:I think it is a good idea to consider Conflict of Interest
Marika Konings:@Greg - yes that is correct (it would be the Sat)
Marika Konings:but there wouldn't be any GNSO sessions
Alex Deacon:I am also not infavor of adding an additional day to an already very long meeting.
Andrew Sullivan:FWIW, the IETF meeting is butted up right after the ICANN meeting, so anyone going to the IETF meeting (I might be the only one) is probably not going to be excited by adding another day to the travel
Ayden Férdeline:I am inclined to agree with @Steve... given ICANN57 begins on a Thursday as it is and ends the following Wednesday, it is already a two week committment for me. Not sure if I can make it for that reason alone.
Stephanie Perrin:Let the record show I agree with Greg (doesn't happen that often :-)
Andrew Sullivan:(We appear to be an illustration of the principle that the agenda expands to fill the available meeting time :))
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):having 2 meetings during the week might be not a good idea - no time to do homework between sessions :)
Ayden Férdeline:If we can 'bank' the extra day for ICANN58, which is slightly shorter, that might work better for some. But I suppose it also depends on where we are with our work plan :)
Marika Konings:it would be unlikely that there would be F2F WG meetings in parallel as we are aware of the significant overlap in membership between some of the PDP WGs
Stuart Clark:Realise it is probably very hard to do, but wanted to raise it anyway :-)
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Also that the First Day in Icann 57 there will be Government Representatives including the Ministers attending the function and there is a possibility of a pleanary Session / Talk
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:by the Govt Reps
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):is it going to be an official opening ceremony during the day 1? (with reps of ministries and government)
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Yes
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):then we should avoid that particular timeslot + 15 minutes after that
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:I am in discussions right now but we may have the Prime Minister Open it for us
Marika Konings:According to the ICANN schedule, this is currently foreseen for day 3 (opening ceremony)
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:if he has time
Stephanie Perrin:I am still trying to make a comment on the phase 1 and 2 reports
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL::-)
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@VAIBHAV I think it is impotant to have ICANN and the persons who invite Gov. reps to think in the same terms (like day 1 = 3rd OCT e.t.c)
Ankur Raheja:Thanks for the update Mr Aggarwal
Ankur Raheja:Its 3rd November
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):even more :)
Marika Konings:but undoubtedly further discussions and co-ordination will need to take place with regards to the schedule. The GNSO has started to work on its schedule, but that will definitely need to be reviewed in conjunction with the plans of others including any general sessions that are taking place.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:@Maxim Sorry Pardon me for the lack of understanding of your comment here but can u please rephrase
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Could we request to use Old style schedule? In Finland it was impossible to use the webpage of the schedule
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@VAIBHAV usually ICANN meeting starts for some of us 2 days in advance (GNSO things e.t.c) and opening ceremony was on monday (3rd day). so it is better to use dates in conversations (at least mention date and day of the week)
Terri Agnew:@Maxim, on the web page schedule you could change it to grid style if that helps
Ayden Férdeline:I am largely in agreement with @Stephanie, but I do think it would be useful if we made an adjustment to steps 1 and 2 to separate each of the fundamental questions set out in the working group charter. If we consider each question individually, I believe it will be easier for others to feed their thoughts back to us.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:@Maxim - Sure. But I am mentioning Day 1 already. NM. Lets wait for Marika till next week to come back with an update.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:For all we know it is speculation
Richard Padilla:Having some internet issues going to reboot and come back keep droping connection for some reason
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Terri - it did not work ... full grid with scalable contents was not available ... some coding issues
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:@Teri Thnx
Ayden Férdeline:To expand upon my comments above - a more incremental approach, in steps 1 and 2, would allow us to more thoroughly and fairly consider each of the fundamental questions set out in the working group charter. And it would be much easier for others, who are not following the working group's activities as closely as we all are, to comment in small bites.
Marika Konings:@Ayden - we have heard complaints in the past as well about asking too often for input as some find that more difficult to manage than having a more complete picture to comment on. I guess it is all about finding the right balance :-)
Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):RDAP can be extended using "normal" IETF processes. Could be time measured in months.
Andrew Sullivan:Along with what Scott said, I'll note that it's not at all clear that any extensions are needed
Chuck Gomes:I am back in Adobe but please proceed
Andrew Sullivan:also, unlike the way whois parsing works, adding stuff that a client doesn't recognise to an RDAP response does not harm anyone
Andrew Sullivan:(the protocol is designed specifically to tolerate that.)
Nathalie Coupet:Thank you. So interesting
Ayden Férdeline:Do we not have a responsibility to consider how the RDS could be misused too? What if, say, a sniper was to decide to target an online business who does not list their address on their webpage, and used the RDS to determine the address of their building? (Obviously this is an extreme example.) While this would not be an intended use of the RDS, but if we have a system which can be misused by malicious persons, aren't we negligent...?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):desing of the system itself might be a subject of locla legislation ideas ... not just scenarios of use
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):*design
marksv [MSFT]:+1
Alex Deacon:@ayden - a mis-use case I suppose.
Andrew Sullivan:@Maxim: if there are legislators who start specifying how a system is implemented instead of what things it needs to achieve, then those locales will get the Internet they deserve
marksv [MSFT]:We have a responsibility to prevent misuse. That's a "Negative use case" as Rod describes it.
marksv [MSFT]:@Andrew lol
Daniel K. Nanghaka:I think we need to review both Use Cases and MisUse Cases
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):all scenarios which were not designed - better to keep in prohibited area (until further formal developments)
Daniel K. Nanghaka:Could the constraints also be termed as Misuse cases
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Andrew ... sometimes the location of the DB is an issue
Ayden Férdeline:No, sorry, I disagree @Maxim. I do not want misuse cases to form part of the non-goals...
Andrew Sullivan:@Maxim: I think the constraint is usually where particular data may be
Stephanie Perrin:is it just me or is Rod breaking up a lot?
Andrew Sullivan:not where "the database" is
Andrew Sullivan:those are different questions, particularly in a distributed system
Marika Konings:@Stephanie - it may be your line. Rod comes across loud and clear on this side.
marksv [MSFT]:I hear Rod OK, sorry
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Andrew - I am not saying it is one issue ... it is two issues
Stephanie Perrin:NO matter how much you pay, Internet signal is not the best in rural areas...
Andrew Sullivan:I think I'm claiming that the first issue isn't an issue at all unless we select a centralized-database design that is the wrong answer to any problem on the Internet
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Andrew +1
marksv [MSFT]:At the end of the excercise, I believe we will have lists of (a) desired behaviors to enable (b) undesirable behavior to actively prevent (c) "nice to have" behavior that we can postpone or cut entirely from scope
Alex Deacon:@andrew - isn't selecting a database design an implementation issue? Not sure we should be making those decisions in this PDP. Better to focus on the policy...and leave the implementation/design to other experts.
Andrew Sullivan:@Alex: it would be if people didn't keep suggesting a Giant Centralized Database
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Alex I think the idea of the design comes before the implementation and might cause significant issues with GAC
Andrew Sullivan:I continue to believe that too much of this effort is poisoned by the whois-the-protocol thinking. For instance, the consultation asks whether we can "fix up" whois.
Stephanie Perrin: The policy must be influenced by technical realities, which is why this whole process is iterative.
Lisa Phifer:@Maxim, phase 3 of this PDP's charter allows for this WG to offer implementation guidance. However, the WG can also define requirements on system model in phase 1, and related policies in phase 2.
Alex Deacon:@maxim - yes, but both design and implementaion comes after policy development.
Andrew Sullivan:The answer to that is, "No." Th IETF has said so repeatedly, and we should stop asking questions that have been answered by those competent in the technology and move on.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Scenario#1 is going to be used a lot for social engineering
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Do we suggest behavioural patterns collection for purposes of refining the system in the future?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):anonymized one
Fabricio Vayra:@ Andrew - Very well stated!
Fabricio Vayra:+1 Mark
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):+1 Mark
Andrew Sullivan:@Mark: paper and fax machines -- well, mail and mimeograph machines -- is in fact how we got NICNAME/WHOIS :)
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:+2 Mark
Alex Deacon:Its not our task to design the system also....
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Correct - So If we dont recomend then there is no System !!!
Beth Allegretti:Hi all - I've been on audio but I'm finally able to get in the Adobe chat.
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:welcome Beth - Suggestion - Be On Audio for Audio but be in the Room for the rest :-)
Lisa Phifer:@Stephanie, that counter example was deleted since that approach didn't prove useful
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):it will lead to matrix of compatibility between jurisdictions/roles/allowed use
Stephanie Perrin:Oh I assumed that was still there since it is still up on the screeen.
Greg Shatan:The wonders of marginal comments in track changes -- the overflow from the deletion became an "end note"....
Greg Shatan:Thus sowing confusion.
Greg Shatan:Or I should say "marginal deletions".
marksv [MSFT]:I vote to support as proposed
Fabricio Vayra:I support as well.
Greg Shatan:I tend to use "inline deletions" but the marginal deletions do make the actual text easier to read (subject to what just happened here...).
Marc Anderson:I need to drop off. Thank you everyone
Farell FOLLY:+1 @Greg
Fabricio Vayra:Lisa - happy to volunteer for drafting use cases
Nathalie Coupet:I also volunteer
Ayden Férdeline:I would like to be involved in identifying mis-use cases.
Stephanie Perrin:Are there not existing use cases from the EWG? NOt endorsing, just avoiding new work
Fabricio Vayra:+1 Stephanie. Happy to start with EWG examples
Alex Deacon:suggest we start with EWG use cases and go from there.
Fabricio Vayra:+1 Alex. If nothing else, good for examples for format
Nathalie Coupet:+1
Susan Prosser:+1
Andrew Sullivan:Have to drop -- another meeting looming
Andrew Sullivan:bye all
Nathalie Coupet:bye
Nathalie Coupet:Thank you, Chuck
Fabricio Vayra:Thanks all!
Sara Bockey:Thanks all
Ankur Raheja:Thanks
marksv [MSFT]:This was a valuable and useful meeting for me - thanks all!
Stephanie Perrin:Have a great vacation CHuck!
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Have a Good One Guys
Susan Prosser:thanks all
Ayden Férdeline:I thought per the work plan we were going to consider purpose, and then use cases?
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL:Plan a Vacation in INdia around the Icann 57-Let me know
Vlad Dinculescu:Thanks all
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all
VAIBHAV AGGARWAL::-)
Tapani Tarvainen:Bye all
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