[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act

Gomes, Chuck cgomes at verisign.com
Wed Jun 22 18:25:27 UTC 2016


Let's please avoid personal criticism.   We can disagree without being critical of the people who disagree with us.

Chuck

From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of benny at nordreg.se
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 11:50 AM
To: Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act

Reading this thread I find your attitude against others raising as an opponent to your thoughts and ideas very patronizing

With statements that Volker should be allowed to be part of making policy you clearly haven't understood the ICANN model and probably never will change your attitude in that regards
Furthermore stating that if you are not heard you have other ways of power making it come through... Seriously???? And you "demand" others to behave!

Go take some of your own advice you throw out in your emails it might do you good....



Sent from my iPhone

On 22 Jun 2016, at 17:17, Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal <va at bladebrains.com<mailto:va at bladebrains.com>> wrote:
Volker,

No you don't take these threats seriously, as the tone and manner is appearing to be callous. Do I need to mention the crisis EU is going through right now ?
I am avoiding writing to you in a particular manner but this is the second mail you have written in a superior manner and a showing down manner.

So here is my take - Even if you want to to show that you represent a particular set of people - No you don't. Your statement is skewed and can be shot at, any point in time as you represent Key Systems and there is a Conflict of interest for you to even be on this group.
You can definitely give your inputs, but you do not have the right to make policy. You have business vested Interests. What you are writing in this WG mailing list, shud it be taken KEY SYSTEM's Official Stand on the matter - in the same tone and reference? Please elaborate.

Re Representations, your response is Patronizing, Aggressive and Harsh when compared to how I have worded my mail. NOT Discounting that I can pin you down anytime.
Please consider I live in a region where I am living amongst 4 Billion People, not in your region. And I am well travelled globally, to consider the public policy environment in the west or the east or north or South. If you ever come to India in the ICANN 57, you will feel the heat yourself. This part of the world is a bit more complicated than where you are living - especially for security. So don't be Patronising.
BY way of your thoughts, it appears that you don't get too much vacation. You have neither travelled to Africa, Nor Asia nor studied those regions. I will be happy to host you.

Also, let's be humble when we write in the list. Its been read around the world, by professionals who don't have the time to read BS. At least I don't.

Back to the Topic, in two lines : Regarding the Point I made earlier, It is advisable to be Democratic in your approach, I have kept the point for a discussion, It is a requirement from my side if it get heard great - if not then this is not the last forum I would like to present this view point to. I have considerable influence elsewhere too. And I am a Contributor and Member of the WG as you are. I have the right to be heard, present my view point and Keep my Voice as you have and As the rest of us have. Who the hell is anyone to Rubbish what any of us say. Take it easy.

So Chill and Relax !!
Next time be professional and don't be patronizing - its democracy not war.

-VA

From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:31 PM
To: Vaibhav Aggarwal <va at bladebrains.com<mailto:va at bladebrains.com>>, <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act

I take those threats seriously, but I take human rights and personal privacy rights just as seriously. If we give up our freedoms to stop a few madmen, we will have paid too high a price. If we go for the lowest common denominator, we will have paid too high a price.

I also firmly oppose the inclusion of additional data that is not required for contactability of the domain owner, such as the social security number of the registrant. This is highly private information and we as service providers have no business asking for it just because someone wants a domain name. I never had to provide my SS number to Amazon, to Facebook, to my local phone company or the post office either and they provide their services to me. Similarly, asking for additional verification such as cell phone verification or govt issued IDs are non-starters.

I would also dispute the notion that the registration of a domain name should in any way be compared to registering a tradmark in the TMCH. The two have nothing in common.

Frankly, asking for additional privacy-relevant data to be included seems like an attempt to set this group up for failure since there is no way that it will gain consensus if that is included in the final recommendations.

If this is your mission, prepared to be disappointed, no matter how many people you claim to represent.

Best regards,

Volker
Am 22.06.2016 um 15:28 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Honestly by way of your reply, You probably don't take the ISIS threat or the The treat of Digital Terrorism seriously or relate to it at all. I would like to request you to take a step back and deliberate on my point not push your view point on the list.

I will advocate that the NEXT-GEN requirement should include the process where in during the completion of the purchase of a Domain Name the Information related should be absolutely mapped to the Social Security Number of the buyer - supported by a password authentication on the buyer's cell phone and verification of the govt. Issued ID. It should be the Registry-Registrar relationship responsibility to get this organized and certified by the respective governments AND the data be made public, in-terms of the validations made and rejections done. For authentication purpose, the procedure could be the same as the TMCH undertakes. Validating the respective trademarks. Infact, the process of buyer validation will be much easier than that of the Trademark as most countries, either developed or Developing, have the social Security format is one way or the other, Digitized already and some kind of government facilitation is available for the API's to be integrated, if need to do so arises.

As a Aware resident of this humble world, I need to be sure that my Digital World is safe from threats. Rather, if this solution is implemented in part of in full, Many Registries will save huge costs on Network infrastructure as this will be able to deal with Internet Spam and Domain-Squatting making it a clean register for the registries to maintain.

Customer Privacy is of pivotal Importance, but not more than Digital Terrorism. In the wake of Free Speech and Privacy, we land up risking the lives of our loved ones.
The Data can be made available for the investigating agencies but that is so many times a long process, so there should be transparency in the system, creating every view of such information private by way of reader authentication. So if I want to read your Information or access it, I need to log in, a Text Authentication, or create an account by uploading my ID etc. etc. Take the example of Linkedin - the Authentication Algorithm is good but there are so many cases of wrongful display information in the user accounts there in too. But on a Dating site like Tinder - It works as the Authentication has checks built in - yet automated. Lets not make Internet an Uber - where everyone runs amok.

And Lastly, My right to Internet is More than yours perhaps as I represent a MUCH larger set of population that you. So to speak so lets not use the expression, and you quote - "If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers", in isolation. We have to look at the Global Picture and It is our endeavor to do "Best Practice Sharing" and make everyone Grow, together. There is much to learn about the Universe - both On the Earth and outside the earth.

I look forward to deliberating on this further more.

Best
-VA

From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 4:36 PM
To: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act


Frankly, as a provider that is handing over private details of my customer I do not care about anything less than the maximum required protection in any jurisdiction that may be applicable. So what if the states have lower privacy protection requirements than Europe and India has none? The only acceptable result in my eyes is an accomodation of the most extensive privacy protection level that may be required.

If we start looking at the countries which do not care about the privacy of their citizens, then we will get nowhere. Only be adhering to a maximum standard can we ensure that the result is workable for all providers and their customers.



Volker



Am 22.06.2016 um 08:59 schrieb Catalyst-Vaibhav Aggarwal:
Since India has no privacy laws, so this WG can perhaps deliberate more to accommodate and protect such countries where no legislation exists as such. This will allow the group to offer a wholistic, and long term policy perspective, justifying NEXT-GEN.

Regards,
-Vaibhav Aggarwal
New Delhi
TheVaibhav.com<http://thevaibhav.com>


From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Holly Raiche <h.raiche at internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche at internode.on.net>>
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 11:59 AM
To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels at gmail.com>>
Cc: RDS WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] The States are Getting into the Act

That is scary.

The Australian legislation (Privacy Act 1988) has a much broader definition:
personal information means information or an opinion about an
identified individual, or an individual who is reasonably
identifiable:

(a)

(a) whether the information or opinion is true or not; and
(b) whether the information or opinion is recorded in a material

(a)   form or not.
 And the Privacy Commissioner ruled that the definition included meta data (that decision is being challenged, but then look at the EU as to meta data)

Holly


On 22 Jun 2016, at 4:08 pm, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels at gmail.com>> wrote:


The Illinois Personal Information Protection Act<http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2702&ChapAct=815%A0ILCS%A0530/&ChapterID=67&ChapterName=BUSINESS%20TRANSACTIONS&ActName=Personal%20Information%20Protection%20Act.> might be of mild interest, particularly the definitions....and what is excluded:

"
"Personal information" means an individual's first name or first initial and last name in combination with any one or more of the following data elements, when either the name or the data elements are not encrypted or redacted:
        (1) Social Security number.
        (2) Driver's license number or State identification



card number.


        (3) Account number or credit or debit card number, or



an account number or credit card number in combination with any required security code, access code, or password that would permit access to an individual's financial account.


"Personal information" does not include publicly available information that is lawfully made available to the general public from federal, State, or local government records.
(Source: P.A. 97-483, eff. 1-1-12.)


-Carlton

==============================
Carlton A Samuels
Mobile: 876-818-1799
Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround
=============================
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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.



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