[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Mp3, AC Recording, AC Chat & Attendance for Next-Gen RDS PDP WG call on Tuesday, 11 April 2017
Michelle DeSmyter
michelle.desmyter at icann.org
Tue Apr 11 20:18:23 UTC 2017
Dear All,
Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 16:00 UTC.
MP3: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-11apr17-en.mp3
<http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-11apr17-en.mp3>
AC recording: https://participate.icann.org/p6086e50408/
The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:
http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DwMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&m=GJMkY4Fbi9sry9Z53DaSWJm-mHxMfFxg7MEVDf2JU90&s=FI3QJYH6DWWCDQir6NDMSjPkzdqfTTUmf9Ua-AYpc14&e=>
** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **
Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/
Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/CcPRAw
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Michelle
———————————————
AC Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP WG Tuesday, 11 April 2017
Michelle DeSmyter:Welcome to the GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group teleconference on Tuesday, 11 April 2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90 minutes.
Michelle DeSmyter:Agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_CcPRAw&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=8TMv3EprOWXPDmVpMx3a4yxWaxUiyxrkheAFaSQlzQc&s=zg2LSish7IuO0wOlnrPN25a01S-CgxZ4Ijdyh7-bJVs&e=
Michael Hammer:I'll need to drop off at 60 minutes - apologies.
Chuck Gomes:Hello all
Chris Pelling:Good afternoon all
Nathalie Coupet:Hello all
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All
Theo Geurts:'lo
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):be back in 2 min, reloading
Greg Aaron:Hi.
David Cake:hello all
andrew sullivan:Hi all
Alan Greenberg:I am getting no audio on AC.
Carlton Samuels:Howdy do all
andrew sullivan:Am I correct in believing that the silence is just pre-meeting silence, or is there a problem for me/
andrew sullivan:?
Lisa Phifer:there is audio now Andrew
Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):Im not hearing anything, either
Alan Greenberg:No on AC.
Susan Prosser:I'm not getting it either
Carlton Samuels:I'm hearing people
David Cake:I also can't hear any audio
David Cake:Now I can
Chris Pelling:I hear Chuck talking now
andrew sullivan:audio now
Carlton Samuels:Chuck is speaking
Alan Greenberg:Carlton, sound on adobe connect?
Michelle DeSmyter:I will check into the issue
Chris Pelling:I can hear you Chuck :)
Susan Prosser:now I can
Theo Geurts:audio bridge fine
andrew sullivan:just started. Sounded like it buffered for approxmately forever and then started up
Carlton Samuels:@Alan, yes. Sound on the a/c room
Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):Still no sound on AC for me
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):Could anyone test adobe audio, I do not hear anything
Michele Neylon:AC audio isn't working, but I'm dialled in
Michele Neylon:now it is working
Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):Now it's there!
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):I do hear aduio
Alan Greenberg:Just started!
Kal Feher:oh. audio just arrived
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):UPDATE: my SOI has SSC now in .12.
Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):silence again...
Alex Deacon:I heard Andrew but nothing else. I'll dial in....
Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):I heard maxim
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:same here else complety silence
Kal Feher:I heard a bit of Andrew sullivan and maxim, but not hearing others. AC audio is not receiving all speakers atm
Alex Deacon:same for me.
Sara Bockey:seems to be working for me
Alan Greenberg:I am dialed in but on AC, I am hearing everyone I think.
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:People are not been let into the meeting
Sara Bockey:Stephanie is waiting to get in....can staff assist?
andrew sullivan:yes :)
Chris Pelling:Can someone let Stewphanie Perrin in
Greg Shatan:Both times I've logged into AC today, it has apparently knocked my Internet connection offline. It could be an instance of correlation not equaling causation, but my Internet connection is usually solid (if unspectacular).
Michelle DeSmyter 2:If anyone does need a dialout, please private chat and and we can have an operator dial out to you as well
Kal Feher:audio just started to pick up chuck in AC.
Michelle DeSmyter 2:IT is addressing the issue right now as well
Carlton Samuels:Except for Jamaica! I gotta call the US Toll free via Skype!
Lisa Phifer:link to 2a is https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_64078601_ICANN58-2DPrivacy-2DPanel-2DResponses-2DDraft-2D7April2017.docx&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=8TMv3EprOWXPDmVpMx3a4yxWaxUiyxrkheAFaSQlzQc&s=jmGrgFi2F0Q5OgaSwqXmJKgRT5OyvwI521pY-i7Nvug&e=
andrew sullivan:The nice thing about that Internet (it might catch on yet!) is that it can route around the damage of the traditional POTS system :)
Michelle DeSmyter 2:I will send the invite out to everyone now as a reminder with phone numbers
Volker Greimann:is there no sound today
Lisa Phifer:@Volker, there is a tech issue being resolved now
Volker Greimann:ah ok. I now got to hear chuck for 2 secs
Lisa Phifer:@Volker, if you can dial-in please do
Volker Greimann:sorry
Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:sound finally
Marina Lewis:Hi everyone
Lisa Phifer:We will be using the answers given to inform our deliberation on questions in our charter. Recall that this WG's goal in asking the questions was to inform our work. but we have many ohther sources of input to consider as well
Michael Hammer:My suggestion is to change the approach for private registration. Let the organization providing the private registration be the registrant of record and responsible for the activities and use of the domain.
Volker Greimann:law enforcement documents are usually very one-sided
Volker Greimann:after all, they represent the state of how they see the law.
Michael Hammer:the relationship between the individual and the private registration organization be contractual.
Michelle DeSmyter 2:Is everyone able to hear the audio through your Adobe Connect?
Lisa Phifer:@Michael, that would be a potential solution to raise during deliberation on our privacy charter questions
Volker Greimann:if the law is X, that is how it has to be, ultimately
Michael Hammer:Law enforcement or legal entities can serve search warrents or subpeonas if they need to know the actual registrant.
Greg Shatan:We should make sure that the panelist are all aware of this document and have an opportunity to respond and/or contribute.
Nathalie Coupet:I think Greg would like the input of privacy lawyers who can defend IPC interests
Nathalie Coupet:Consultants?
Michael Hammer:My concern is the actual stopping of abusive/malicious activity that is happening (malware, etc).
Greg Shatan:I would like the input of privacy lawyers who can dieal with this in commercially pragmatic manner.
Nathalie Coupet:Does the GNSO have a budget for this?
Greg Shatan:Not merely for intellectual property owners, but for consumers, anti-abuse investigators of all types, consumers and other end-users. My concerns are not merely parochial.
Nathalie Coupet:I didn't think they were.
Lisa Phifer:@Susan, do you need any staff support (to arrange call, assemble survey, etc) - if so, let us know
andrew sullivan:My suggestion to the team is that we just pick a different term. I wonder whether that would be acceptable to people?
andrew sullivan:(re: authoritative)
Lisa Phifer:@David, same question, let us know if you need a call scheduled, etc
andrew sullivan:I think that Nathalie Coupet has also volunteered to the team, BW
andrew sullivan:BTW
Jim Galvin (Afilias):we could have our own glossary of course, and add the nuance we need to the technical definition to serve our purpose. But I also support a different term.
Nathalie Coupet:Thanks, Andrew
David Cake:Yes, Nathalie has also volunteered.
Volker Greimann:IIRC, this discussion was also a part of the Thick Whois PDP deliberations.
David Cake:And yes, we may pick a different term if we can find one.
Volker Greimann:maybe we can draw on that work regarding the definition of authoritativeness?
Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):@Volker, I think their definition is part of what people are disagreeing with. I know I don't agree with it.
David Cake:Thick whois is relevant, yes.
Carlton Samuels:The sound is totally gone now!
Carlton Samuels:Reloaded and back!
Volker Greimann:@Scott: Disagreement is good, but we then need to ensure we properly define the term going forward. I think it is problematic if one particular term means one thing during one PDP that is still on its way to implementation and another thing during another.
Scott Hollenbeck (Verisign):Agreed, and so maybe Andrew's suggestion is a good one.
Michele Neylon:The IRT vs the PDP ... ..
Volker Greimann:once a certain definition has been agreed, that should have some weight going forward, and any changes should be well argued and documented.
Volker Greimann:and ideally also be applied retroactively to already completed work
Alan Greenberg:That is 6 hours or a full 1/4 of the meeting devoted to this PDP. A big commitment for those of us that have other AC/SO work as well!
Volker Greimann:@Greg: I prefer to be legally compliant-pragmatic
Carlton Samuels:@Chuck: Would it be useful to load the EWG's work on this and see if we can get some minds concentrated?
Lisa Phifer:See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_64078512_Merged-2DThinDataPurposes-2Dv1.pdf&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=8TMv3EprOWXPDmVpMx3a4yxWaxUiyxrkheAFaSQlzQc&s=x9E4oDJF8UAW8cXBbxUBQ1xwU978WJFqvlVz8ZKrvx4&e=
Volker Greimann:as in: best be on the safe side - pragmatic
Lisa Phifer:@Carlton, the EWG's Annex D has been merged with Andew's proposed approach in this document being displayed now
Amr Elsadr:All documents relevant to today's call are posted on the meeting wiki page here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_CcPRAw&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=8TMv3EprOWXPDmVpMx3a4yxWaxUiyxrkheAFaSQlzQc&s=zg2LSish7IuO0wOlnrPN25a01S-CgxZ4Ijdyh7-bJVs&e=
Carlton Samuels:@Lisa. Thanks.t noticed
Greg Shatan:@Volker, I'm also suggesting being legally compliant and pragmatic. Our goal should be to accomplish our objectives to the greatest extent within the bounds of the law, reasonably and pragmatically applied.
Volker Greimann:@greg: maybe the term "pragmatic application of the law" worries me more than it should then? I rather apply the law with some safe space than pragmatically
Michele Neylon:We might have very different objectives though :)
Lisa Phifer:Note that this WG already looked at EWG's permissible purposes when we deliberated on charter subquestion 3.2. See our working document for purposes for collection of thin data.
Nathalie Coupet:@Michele: We could apply the legal principle that what is not forbidden is allowed.
andrew sullivan:@Nathalie: I'm not a lawyer: is that actually a univeral legal principle?
andrew sullivan:I know it's a legal principle in some systems, but I don't know about all
Nathalie Coupet:It's a general legal principle in French law, would need to research for other legal systems
Volker Greimann:@nathalie: when it comes to data protection, the principle is turned around. what is not allowed is prohibited
Volker Greimann:as in: if there is not a legitimate reason to collect, store, etc the data, you should not be doing it
Lisa Phifer:secure protected credentials, Rod
Greg Shatan:Pragmatic application does not imply a lack of "safety." We should mitigate risk, not attract it. On the other hand, if one wanted to be absolutely safe, one would stay in bed.
Michael Hammer:Lots of people die in bed.
Greg Shatan:The bathroom is the most dangerous room in the house. That doesn't keep me out of it....
Greg Shatan:The kitchen is number two and I definitely don't avoid that. But I do take pragmatic precautions.
andrew sullivan:@Michael: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.goodreads.com_book_show_25506781-2Dwe-2Dll-2Dall-2Dbe-2Dburnt-2Din-2Dour-2Dbeds-2Dsome-2Dnight&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=8TMv3EprOWXPDmVpMx3a4yxWaxUiyxrkheAFaSQlzQc&s=h7WbvtL0-Z1h3gCXrs4AgTxzGVm3MujKLL-J9EYF_J0&e= ?
Greg Shatan:@Michele, I was thinking more about the objectives of the RDS, but I suppose there might be some difference of opinion on that as well....
Michael Hammer:Rod is definitely and old hand. <G>
Michele Neylon:lol
Greg Shatan:@Andrew, @MIchael, https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_jpkGvk1rQBI&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=8TMv3EprOWXPDmVpMx3a4yxWaxUiyxrkheAFaSQlzQc&s=WDNPkUT5zFinHOf1e8IecaBYYIUUiO9A8cURUQv_yoA&e= ("How Can We Sleep When Our Beds are Burning?", Midnight Oil)
Lisa Phifer:Correction: it is section 2.2.2 of our working document that enumerates our rough consensus agreements on purposes for collection so far
Lisa Phifer:Working Document: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_56986791_KeyConceptsDeliberation-2DWorkingDraft-2D4April2017.pdf&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=8TMv3EprOWXPDmVpMx3a4yxWaxUiyxrkheAFaSQlzQc&s=jyj3QbF_ooqZ9hERQgM2mCkkCbFgjdhdoSDMDhpqhX4&e=
Volker Greimann:@stephanie: In many cases the reseller will not be known by the registrar or registry
Michael Hammer:Stephanie does raise an interesting point.
Michele Neylon:reseller is in thick
Michele Neylon:in .com and .net anyway
Stephanie Perrin:great thanks!
Volker Greimann:@Michele: Only the reseller of the registrar, but not the reseller of the reseller, or their reseller, or theirs....
Michele Neylon:Volker - no of course not
Michele Neylon:that would make the record stupidly long :)
Michael Hammer:Weknow that some resellers are more problematic than others from an abuse perspective.
Volker Greimann:so the reseller field does not necessarily inform anyone about where they should go to manage their domain
Michele Neylon:Volker - true
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):also resellers can create a chain ...
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):of resellers
Lisa Phifer:See references in table to group (i) - that's the group Andrew is referring to at the moment
Lisa Phifer:Group (i) includes Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID and Registrar Name
Sara Bockey:I can't hear anything
Sara Bockey:audio back but I missed the last 3 mins of convo
Amr Elsadr:@Sara: Would you like a dial-out?
andrew sullivan:In case it helps, the mail that I sent about this where I laid out the details has Subject: a suggestion for "purpose in detail"
Sara Bockey:Thanks, Amr... I think I'm good for the moment
andrew sullivan:hang on, I'll find the link in the archives
Amr Elsadr:@Sara: Great.
andrew sullivan:The thread starts at http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/2017-March/002575.html
andrew sullivan:I think the table is really helpful, however
andrew sullivan:"authoritative" is the right name, IMO :)
andrew sullivan:but anyway, the IANA registry is the Real Source for the name
Lisa Phifer:Andrew's document is in the meeting materials as well, in printable form. See https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_download_attachments_64076964_Sullivan-2DSuggestionForPurposeInDetail.pdf&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=8TMv3EprOWXPDmVpMx3a4yxWaxUiyxrkheAFaSQlzQc&s=HF3J0ttMiuEKP4JzEGZhzpiLoj84rILXqW4PlnIIxW0&e=
Lisa Phifer:All of Andrew's text is captured in the merged document, with the exception of the concept of "maximal use"
andrew sullivan:At the moment, the relevant IANA registry is listed as a protocol parameters registry. Those are not normally queried online, but are instead imbedded in other systems
Chris Pelling:there is also a registered name server lookup to find registered IPs via whois
andrew sullivan:I agree with Lisa that everything is captured in this merged document & I don't want to minimise that or suggest it's not excellent work
Lisa Phifer:@Andrew, possibly it would help to group the rows to reflect your data groups?
andrew sullivan:I just don't want people to focus exclusively tablewise, since it's important to realise that some rows go together
Lisa Phifer:The related rows are adjacent but perhaps with color-coding and a summary of why the rows are grouped?
andrew sullivan:In respect of the remit issues: this is why not everything I discussed in the mail I sent reflected EWG purposes, because once I had a single reason why everyone needed the data, other purposes didn't matter I think
andrew sullivan:@Lisa: no, I think this is good enough. We're all clever enough to keep it in mind as long as we commit to doing so :)
Rod Rasmussen:For data collection, one "legitimate" purpose is probably sufficient (ignoring retention and other ancilliary issues). Full debate on the legitimacy of all purposes becomes much more important for discussions around what data is provided to data requestors and under what conditions (e.g. gated vs. open)
Roger Carney:@andrew, I sort of agree, except that multiple purposes are also useful "in the future" as at some point a single purpose may no longer be valid
Jim Galvin (Afilias):@rod +1
Jim Galvin (Afilias):I wish we would carefully separate collection from publication
Rod Rasmussen:@Roger - I kinda ignored that for my answer, but yes, you are dead-on correct - we discussed that in the EWG as well, which is one reason we gave the full matrix. Such an event is unlikely, but possible.
Jim Galvin (Afilias):as far as I know there is nothing extra that folks are looking to be collected than what has already been collected. so why do we need more than one purpose?
Marc Anderson:@Jim what about language tag?
Michele Neylon:woohoo my senility must be improving :)
andrew sullivan:I approached this only from collection. I thought we weren't talking about pub yet
Jim Galvin (Afilias):@marc - language tag is only relevant if it's present on data you're publishing. seems to me it would have the "rule" applied as the data itself, since it's an integral part of the data.
Rod Rasmussen:The "academic" question is actually quite nuanced and layered given ICANN's commitments to transparency and other resposibilities around competition, access, etc. One of the ways you *can* do that is by providing data to researchers working under well-defined (and it is in the world today) academic guidelines and oversight to do studies on these various topics. For example, can people in developing countries get access to domain registration services or are they priced out of the market, or do they not have local registrars available that provide local language services? This kind of important question needs RDS-style data at scale to answer. So one or our jobs may well be to answer that question.
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):not all knids of research are good for community .. like research on methods to instantly collapse DNS all over the planet :) - pretty much legal
Rod Rasmussen:@Maxim - yeah, though that example is probably doable via DNS queries and zone files without any RDS involvment at all. :-(
Roger Carney:@Rod, I would say that is not "academic" you are defining a more specific ICANN competition/chose evaluation
Michele Neylon:eh? the IANA ID is unique to each registrar
Chris Pelling:I was about to say that too Michele
Michele Neylon:Unless I've misunderstood him
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):not all .. 9998 and 9999 are not :)
Michele Neylon:but what I'm hearing is incorrect
Roger Carney:@andrew, good point, some data is actively captured, passively "captured" and some generated
Michele Neylon:That's a "trading name"
Michele Neylon:totally different
Michele Neylon:Enom had over 250 IANA IDs
Michele Neylon:and quite a few companies are called one thing officially and trade as something totally different
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:IANA ID IS THE NAME OF REGISTRAR in Whois ?
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):formally they are different legal bodies
Michele Neylon:No
Michele Neylon:the IANA ID is a number
Rod Rasmussen:But to my point - one of the questions we wrestled with as the EWG is how to provide large-scale access to academic researchers in a gated-access RDS world, as there are an unknowable amount of potential community-wide beneficial studies that could be performed, but only with broad access that may not be available otherwise. That's one of the ways this particular use-case was raised in awareness and priority in the EWG work. Anyways, this discussion is much more relevant for the publication portion of our deliberations - there is likely no "academic only" data element on the collection docket.
Michele Neylon:which has a name with it
Lisa Phifer:Should Registrar Name be a registration data element?
andrew sullivan:It certainly is
Michele Neylon:it is
Chris Pelling:It is showed and is a requirement of the RAA
Lisa Phifer:It is currently a data element specified in the RAA
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):9998 9999 are registries acting as registrars ...so it is not very unique
Lisa Phifer:I think the question to this WG is: Should Registrar Name be a registration data element? It is - should it be, in order to meet requirements for registration data?
andrew sullivan:I withdrew my hand because of time, but I mentioned this upthread
Alan Greenberg:So if a registrar changes its legal name, and the next week I do a WHOIS query, does it reflect the old name or new name?
Chris Pelling:depends how quick they change it
andrew sullivan:The way the names for IANA ids get bound in is usually static
andrew sullivan:this is because the IANA registry is a protocol parameters reg
Alan Greenberg:What I am asking is does the registry need to go through its entire WHOIS database and make that change?
Theo Geurts:the RAA is perhaps not the best example when it comes to guiding us through this
Chris Pelling:ICANN gets updated, then it trickles down to the registries
andrew sullivan:so it gets included in programs rather than queried real time
andrew sullivan:it's like the protocol number for TCP
andrew sullivan:@Alan: that's a question of how the registry has implemented
andrew sullivan:if the have a clue, they used a table and update it once
andrew sullivan:some people don't have such a clue and need to update many rows :)
Alan Greenberg:I guess I would have expected the id to be in the actual record and the ID:Name registry contents periodically cached.
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):cross control over registrars might be out of scope of this group
Greg Shatan:Google is now a subsidiary of Alphabet; it remains a discrete company, though wholly-owned by Alphabet....
andrew sullivan:@Alan: how someone implements stuff is often surprisng
Alan Greenberg:@Andrew Ain't that the truth!
Marina Lewis:@Chuck - only if we give equal air time to a "maximalist" approach.
Fabricio Vayra:+Marina
Fabricio Vayra:@Jim -- Will we link from the ID to the record?
andrew sullivan:What this question really boils down to is, "Should the RDS incorporate the IANA registry of registrars?" or maybe "Should IANA's collection of registrar names be considered part of the RDS"? If we frame it that way, I think the answer is yes
Marina Lewis:I would like to hear reasons why having the registar listed as a registration data element has NOT been working. In other words, what is the rationale for removing this element from public view now?
Michele Neylon:it's a data managment issue
andrew sullivan:@Marina: there is no rationale, but we're only talking about collection :)
Fabricio Vayra:+1 Marina
Michele Neylon:1448 = Blacknight
Michele Neylon:You don't need to collect "Blacknight"
Michele Neylon:it's already mapped to it
Fabricio Vayra:@Michale, will thre be a link to = Blacknight?
Chris Pelling:@Jim, you cannot say "Ip" its the registrar login
Michele Neylon:So I tend to agree with Jim
andrew sullivan:I think the point I made above is the way to frame it, though
Theo Geurts:+1 Jim
Michele Neylon:Fabricio - you can display the name in the output
andrew sullivan:But we're out of time :)
Marina Lewis:I ask because the approach we are being asked to take (to achive consensus) is not to throw the baby out with the proverbial bathwater, but rather to identify specific reasons why an existing practice is not working. So far, I have heard nothing.
Michele Neylon:you just don't need to collect it
Chris Pelling:a few platform providers might use the same IP for a few registrars, but, on EPP connection the login would be unique
andrew sullivan:@Michele: someone needs to collect it
Lisa Phifer:Note that we are running over call end time, hang in there a minute if you can
Fabricio Vayra:QUESTION: So will the ID link to the registrar details?
andrew sullivan:you're saying the registry doesn't need to. That's true
Chris Pelling:but agree with Jim regarding Minimal, its not needed
Michele Neylon:Andrew - IANA has it - so does ICANN
andrew sullivan:But the IANA registry _does_ need to
andrew sullivan:and so the question is only whether that's part of the RDS. I say yes.
Michele Neylon:Andrew - of course
Michele Neylon:Or displayed
Michele Neylon:personally I don't care
Stephanie Perrin:Does not adding it introduce risk/inaccuracy? IN which case we discuss it much later when we discuss risk/accuracy.
andrew sullivan:The IANA registry is not today looked up in real tie
andrew sullivan:time
andrew sullivan:and that's important to keep in mind
Michele Neylon:exactly it's static
Greg Shatan:Maybe that should be solved.
Stephanie Perrin:Have to get on next call, by all!
Chris Pelling:have fun all and happy Easter to those that have it :)
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):bye all
Greg Shatan:Make the database opaque and difficult to understand is not a great plan.
Fabricio Vayra:+1 Greg S
andrew sullivan:@Greg: the RDAP approach makes this easier, actually
Maxim Alzoba(FAITID):it is not simple already
Greg Shatan:Chag Sameach and Good Passover to those celebrating that, as well.
Theo Geurts:ciao
Chris Pelling:a whois query is very simple
andrew sullivan:Regrets for next week -- I'll be at a meeting in China
Fabricio Vayra:Thanks, all. Bye.
andrew sullivan:so the time would be good, but it'll probably interfere with having to be at the other meetings
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong:au revoir
Marina Lewis:+1 Greg
andrew sullivan:thanks and bye
Amr Elsadr:Thanks all. Bye.
Nathalie Coupet:Bye all! Very interesting!
Marina Lewis:Bye all
Greg Aaron:"The domain name will be necessary for every legitimate purpose."? Is ther ea word missing in there?
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