[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Mon Dec 11 17:54:34 UTC 2017
Or look at .uk. strongly redacted data sets for individuals as
registrant with the option to blank fully. But the registry will work
with law enforceement in case of abuse. And guess what? That works too...
Volker
Am 11.12.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
>
> Allison
>
> Most of the European ccTLDs publish minimal whois to the public but
> many offer mechanisms for granting access to more data.
>
> Obvious example would be .fr, but it’d be the same for many others.
>
> In the case of .tk and other free domains, as you probably know the
> registry back-end operator has given some 3^rd parties direct access
> to suspend domains involved in abuse.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> https://www.blacknight.com/
>
> http://blacknight.blog/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>
> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
> *From: *allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday 11 December 2017 at 17:49
> *To: *Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com>
> *Cc: *"Chen, Tim" <tim at domaintools.com>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
>
> Can you tell me some of the ccTLDs? Any of those that feature commonly
> in abusive domains? Does .TK, .GQ, .ML, .GA, .CF have anything?
>
> On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
> <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>
> Allison
>
> Plenty of ccTLDs offer gated access to their whois and have done
> so for years.
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> https://www.blacknight.com/
>
> http://blacknight.blog/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:+353%2059%20918%203072>
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:+353%2059%20918%203090>
>
> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>
> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
> *From: *allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com<mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>>
> *Date: *Monday 11 December 2017 at 17:37
> *To: *"Chen, Tim" <tim at domaintools.com<mailto:tim at domaintools.com>>
> *Cc: *Michele Neylon
> <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>,
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
>
> this is the first time ive heard of this existing. how does one
> get access?
>
> if the private sector cannot get access, then it is already a failure.
>
> On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Chen, Tim
> <tim at domaintools.com<mailto:tim at domaintools.com>> wrote:
>
> and just because it's being done doesn't mean it's being done
> effectively.
>
> do we have any data from the users of these currently-existing
> gated systems to get their opinion as to whether it works for
> them?
>
> On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 8:09 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
> <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>
> Dick
>
> We have been thinking about what it means in reality, as
> we are the ones who will have to implement it.
>
> For now, I can see a situation where a registrar will end
> up running RDAP with ACLs. And there’ll be layers of
> access with logging etc.,
>
> It’s already being done by a lot of ccTLDs and by two gTLDs.
>
> Just because it’s not “simple” doesn’t mean it can’t be done.
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> https://www.blacknight.com/
>
> http://blacknight.blog/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:+353%2059%20918%203072>
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:+353%2059%20918%203090>
>
> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>
> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside
> Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.:
> 370845
>
> *From: *gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>>
> on behalf of Richard Leaning
> <rleaning at ripe.net<mailto:rleaning at ripe.net>>
> *Date: *Monday 11 December 2017 at 15:00
> *To: *Chuck <consult at cgomes.com<mailto:consult at cgomes.com>>
> *Cc: *gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> *Subject: *Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party
> to ICANN
>
> Dear All,
>
> Wasn’t sure to add to this thread a start a new one.
>
> Accreditation and tiered access is something am hearing
> regularly now when discussing a ‘new’ whois. Its was
> spoken about in corridors and bars at the last ICANN
> meeting and when am walking around Brussels from meeting
> to meeting, conference to conference its always popping up
> as the thing thats going to save us all.
>
> But has anyone stopped to think about this, what do these
> small words mean in reality. So who is going to decided
> who should be accredited, ICANN? ITU? Interpol? Europol?
> some brand new organisations? this debate alone will take
> another 5 years on top of the years we are going to spend
> on this WG.
>
> Just wanted to point out that everyone throws this around
> without actually considering what it means in the real world.
>
> Cheers
>
> Dick
>
> Richard Leaning
>
> External Relations
>
> RIPE NCC
>
> On 8 Dec 2017, at 21:45, Chuck
> <consult at cgomes.com<mailto:consult at cgomes.com>> wrote:
>
> Caution to all. This thread is getting too personal
> and that is not constructive.
>
> Chuck
>
> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org]*On Behalf
> Of*benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>
> *Sent:*Friday, December 8, 2017 9:27 AM
> *To:*allison nixon
> <elsakoo at gmail.com<mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>>
> *Cc:*RDS PDP WG
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> *Subject:*Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working
> Party to ICANN
>
> About behavior in the discussion in general
>
> Who bullies who...
>
> I did not mention any particular and it was a comment
> on a view of the above.
>
> Your assumptions are way of track and insulting in so
> many ways. And kind of show my point, a comment
> misused by quoting it out of context making it a fact
> with out context.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 8 Dec 2017, at 18:16, allison nixon
> <elsakoo at gmail.com<mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Please clarify: "Sure… your pals are always
> innocent right?"
>
> On Dec 8, 2017 12:03 PM,
> "benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>"
> <benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>> wrote:
>
> Criminals were did that come from???
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 8 Dec 2017, at 17:22, allison nixon
> <elsakoo at gmail.com<mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> >> Sure… your pals are always innocent right?
>
> >> Lets just agree that we have different
> viewpoints on this.
>
> I'm assuming you're referencing the
> earlier defamation against spamhaus that
> occurred on this list, apparently without
> the leadership of this list flagging it as
> inappropriate? Or are you accusing someone
> else of being a criminal? Please do be
> more specific. It's better when the
> defamation is explicit rather than inferred.
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 1:48
> AM,benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se><benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>>
> wrote:
>
> Sure… your pals are always innocent right?
>
> Lets just agree that we have different
> viewpoints on this.
>
>
>
> --
> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards
> / Med vennlig hilsen
>
> Benny Samuelsen
> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>
> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
> IANA-ID: 638
> Phone:+46.42197000<tel:%2B46.42197000>
> Direct:+47.32260201<tel:%2B47.32260201>
> Mobile:+47.40410200<tel:%2B47.40410200>
>
> > On 8 Dec 2017, at 07:28, John
> Bambenek
> <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com<mailto:jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Remind me again, which side of this
> fight has been disparaging and
> defaming the other side? Please. Its
> your pals that have been engaging in a
> pattern of sexism, not mine.
> >
> > --
> > John Bambenek
> >
> >> On Dec 8, 2017, at 14:11,
> "benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>"
> <benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> No it’s not about you, it’s about
> the way people form the group you
> apparently represent have been acting
> in discussions.
> >> And that have imo been manipulating
> for making no progress.
> >>
> >> Well free privacy whois isn't a
> solution as long as the anti abuse
> people states that it will create
> problems for the user.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind
> Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
> >>
> >> Benny Samuelsen
> >> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
> >>
> >> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
> >> IANA-ID: 638
> >> Phone:+46.42197000<tel:%2B46.42197000>
> >> Direct:+47.32260201<tel:%2B47.32260201>
> >> Mobile:+47.40410200<tel:%2B47.40410200>
> >>
> >>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 07:00, John
> Bambenek
> <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com<mailto:jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You seem to think this is about me
> and not the dozens of security and
> anti-abuse professionals who have left
> this list... I am not sure why you
> think that.
> >>>
> >>> You also seem to think by saying I
> haven't come up with a better solution
> (whois privacy for free) or that I
> support that status quo (I do not),
> that it makes it true.
> >>>
> >>> But it's also when we talk about
> exactly those things Chuck chimes in
> to say we aren't there yet, which is
> why I've refrained.
> >>>
> >>> I will be contributing once we are
> talking about those issues as I have
> been contributing in ways outside your
> visibility up to this point.
> >>>
> >>> But that doesn't mitigate or
> change the conduct of members of this
> list who have engaged in a pattern of
> bullying, manipulation, and sexism to
> try to make their point. It has not
> gone unnoticed.
> >>>
> >>> j
> >>>> On 12/07/2017 11:42 PM,benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>wrote:
> >>>> Sorry to point it out but imo you have bullied yourself of the buss with not wanting to
> contribute to a new solution where you
> can exist but in same time we can make
> a better solution overall which not
> equal Status Quo.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 7 Dec 2017, at 22:17, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The question has never been asked directly. So you want to get me on the bus, ask the
> question, as I have phrased it directly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But considering almost all the anti-abuse and security types have more or less been
> bullied off the bus, does it really
> matter anymore?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> j
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 12/07/2017 03:01 PM, theo geurts wrote:
> >>>>>> And as confirmed by Hamilton.
> >>>>>> And as confirmed by the Dutch DPA.
> >>>>>> And as confirmed by WP29.
> >>>>>> John, why do we keep having this conversation?
> >>>>>> What do we need to do here to get you on the bus, so we do not get under the bus?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Theo
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 7-12-2017 21:41, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
> >>>>>>> No, not necessarily. The criteria for obtaining valid, freely-given consent
> is demanding, and one cannot be asked
> to consent to processing that is
> otherwise unlawful. We were told in
> the first legal memo from WSGR that
> consent is not a silver bullet here.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> — Ayden
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
> >>>>>>>> Local Time: 7 December 2017 8:18 PM
> >>>>>>>> UTC Time: 7 December 2017 20:18
> >>>>>>>> From:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> >>>>>>>> To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
> >>>>>>>>gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This interpretation is wrong. The latter clearly says that consent in
> the current system is not clearly
> given. If a domain holder had the free
> and informed option to publish
> information in whois or not THIS ISSUE
> IS SOLVED.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> John Bambenek
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 17:59, Volker Greimann
> <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Michele,
> >>>>>>>>> I read this a final and very clear warning from the European DPAs to
> ICANN and its contracted parties to
> stop messing about and start getting
> ready in time for May 25. The
> references to previous notices make it
> very clear that there will be no
> consideration given after that date.
> While the letter contains nothing new
> to anyone who has paid any attention,
> it is very clear in its message:
> Public Whois is illegal in its current
> shape and form, and there is no way to
> make it legal without making it
> non-public.
> >>>>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>>>> Volker
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Am 06.12.2017 um 21:49 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
> >>>>>>>>>> All
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'd highly recommend that you take the time to read the latest
> letter from the Article 29 Working
> Party to ICANN:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/falque-pierrotin-to-chalaby-marby-06Dec17-en.pdf
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> (also attached)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> For clarity the Article 29 WP represents the views of the DPAs of
> the EU member states. In many
> instances DPAs will address their
> concerns via this group rather than
> individually.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Regards
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Michele
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
> >>>>>>>>>> Blacknight Solutions
> >>>>>>>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>https://www.blacknight.com/
> >>>>>>>>>>https://blacknight.blog/
> >>>>>>>>>>https://ceo.hosting/
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Intl.+353 (0) 59
> 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072>
> >>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial:+353 (0)59
> 9183090<tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090>
> >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
> >>>>>>>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
> >>>>>>>>>> Ireland Company No.: 370845
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
> >>>>>>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
> >>>>>>>>>Im Oberen Werk
> 1<https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g>
> >>>>>>>>>66386 St.
> Ingbert<https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g>
> >>>>>>>>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396
> 901<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901>
> >>>>>>>>> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396
> 851<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851>
> >>>>>>>>> Email:
> >>>>>>>>>vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Web:
> >>>>>>>>>www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net/>/www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.rrpproxy.net/>
> >>>>>>>>>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com/>/www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.brandshelter.com/>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> >>>>>>>>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> >>>>>>>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu/>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den
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> >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
> >>>>>>>>> - legal department -
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
> >>>>>>>>>Im Oberen Werk
> 1<https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g>
> >>>>>>>>>66386 St.
> Ingbert<https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g>
> >>>>>>>>> Tel.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396
> 901<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901>
> >>>>>>>>> Fax.:+49 (0) 6894 - 9396
> 851<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851>
> >>>>>>>>> Email:
> >>>>>>>>>vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Web:
> >>>>>>>>>www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net/>/www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.rrpproxy.net/>
> >>>>>>>>>www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com/>/www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.brandshelter.com/>
> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> >>>>>>>>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu/>
> >>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> >>>>>>>>>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> >>>>>>>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> >>>>>gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> >>>>>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>
>
>
> --
>
> _________________________________
> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
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--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
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--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
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