[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN

Tue Dec 12 16:46:45 UTC 2017

Richard

In common with most ccTLDs both registries do a certain amount of address validation, but that’s after the domain has been registered. I’m not sure what gave you the impression that they do some extra verification.

Registries that conduct heavy verification are either focussed on a specific vertical (think .bank) or are slowly realising that they can’t scale and compete with their existing bureaucracy (think .ie )

Regards

Michele

--
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From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Richard Leaning <rleaning at ripe.net>
Date: Monday 11 December 2017 at 18:10
To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN

Dear All,

BUT - .UK and .EU for example have a very very tough verification process for new registrants to go through before they will give you a domain. I know that doesn’t stop all abuse on .UK and .EU but its stops a lot, therefore .UK and .EU is trusted and people will use them and feel safe doing so, and their whois is not as used by investigators as much as others. So if everyone followed there lead - which is what some ICANN WGs are suggesting then the whole domain name space may be a better place and not such reliance on whois to fight abuse.

Richard Leaning
External Relations
RIPE NCC

On 11 Dec 2017, at 18:54, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:

Or look at .uk. strongly redacted data sets for individuals as registrant with the option to blank fully. But the registry will work with law enforceement in case of abuse. And guess what? That works too...
Volker

Am 11.12.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
Allison

Most of the European ccTLDs publish minimal whois to the public but many offer mechanisms for granting access to more data.
Obvious example would be .fr, but it’d be the same for many others.

In the case of .tk and other free domains, as you probably know the registry back-end operator has given some 3rd parties direct access to suspend domains involved in abuse.

Regards

Michele

--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
https://www.blacknight.com/
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Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
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From: allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com><mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>
Date: Monday 11 December 2017 at 17:49
To: Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com><mailto:michele at blacknight.com>
Cc: "Chen, Tim" <tim at domaintools.com><mailto:tim at domaintools.com>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN

Can you tell me some of the ccTLDs? Any of those that feature commonly in abusive domains? Does .TK, .GQ, .ML, .GA, .CF have anything?

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
Allison

Plenty of ccTLDs offer gated access to their whois and have done so for years.

Regards

Michele

--
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Blacknight Solutions
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https://www.blacknight.com/
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Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072<tel:+353%2059%20918%203072>
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Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
From: allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com<mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>>
Date: Monday 11 December 2017 at 17:37
To: "Chen, Tim" <tim at domaintools.com<mailto:tim at domaintools.com>>
Cc: Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>, gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>

Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN

this is the first time ive heard of this existing. how does one get access?

if the private sector cannot get access, then it is already a failure.

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Chen, Tim <tim at domaintools.com<mailto:tim at domaintools.com>> wrote:
and just because it's being done doesn't mean it's being done effectively.

do we have any data from the users of these currently-existing gated systems to get their opinion as to whether it works for them?

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 8:09 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
Dick

We have been thinking about what it means in reality, as we are the ones who will have to implement it.

For now, I can see a situation where a registrar will end up running RDAP with ACLs. And there’ll be layers of access with logging etc.,

It’s already being done by a lot of ccTLDs and by two gTLDs.

Just because it’s not “simple” doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

Regards

Michele

--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
https://www.blacknight.com/
http://blacknight.blog/
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072<tel:+353%2059%20918%203072>
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:+353%2059%20918%203090>
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Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Richard Leaning <rleaning at ripe.net<mailto:rleaning at ripe.net>>
Date: Monday 11 December 2017 at 15:00
To: Chuck <consult at cgomes.com<mailto:consult at cgomes.com>>
Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN

Dear All,

Wasn’t sure to add to this thread a start a new one.

Accreditation and tiered access is something am hearing regularly now when discussing a ‘new’ whois. Its was spoken about in corridors and bars at the last ICANN meeting and when am walking around Brussels from meeting to meeting, conference to conference its always popping up as the thing thats going to save us all.

But has anyone stopped to think about this, what do these small words mean in reality. So who is going to decided who should be accredited, ICANN? ITU? Interpol? Europol? some brand new organisations? this debate alone will take another 5 years on top of the years we are going to spend on this WG.

Just wanted to point out that everyone throws this around without actually considering what it means in the real world.

Cheers

Dick

Richard Leaning
External Relations
RIPE NCC

On 8 Dec 2017, at 21:45, Chuck <consult at cgomes.com<mailto:consult at cgomes.com>> wrote:

Caution to all.  This thread is getting too personal and that is not constructive.

Chuck

From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>
Sent: Friday, December 8, 2017 9:27 AM
To: allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com<mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>>
Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN

About behavior in the discussion in general
Who bullies who...

I did not mention any particular and it was a comment on a view of the above.

Your assumptions are way of track and  insulting in so many ways. And kind of show my point, a comment misused by quoting it out of context making it a fact with out context.

Sent from my iPhone

On 8 Dec 2017, at 18:16, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com<mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>> wrote:
Please clarify: "Sure… your pals are always innocent right?"

On Dec 8, 2017 12:03 PM, "benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>" <benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>> wrote:
Criminals were did that come from???

Sent from my iPhone

On 8 Dec 2017, at 17:22, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com<mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> Sure… your pals are always innocent right?
>> Lets just agree that we have different viewpoints on this.

I'm assuming you're referencing the earlier defamation against spamhaus that occurred on this list, apparently without the leadership of this list flagging it as inappropriate? Or are you accusing someone else of being a criminal? Please do be more specific. It's better when the defamation is explicit rather than inferred.

On Fri, Dec 8, 2017 at 1:48 AM, benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se> <benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>> wrote:
Sure… your pals are always innocent right?

Lets just agree that we have different viewpoints on this.

--
Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen

Benny Samuelsen
Registry Manager - Domainexpert

Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
IANA-ID: 638
Phone: +46.42197000<tel:%2B46.42197000>
Direct: +47.32260201<tel:%2B47.32260201>
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> On 8 Dec 2017, at 07:28, John Bambenek <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com<mailto:jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>> wrote:
>
> Remind me again, which side of this fight has been disparaging and defaming the other side? Please. Its your pals that have been engaging in a pattern of sexism, not mine.
>
> --
> John Bambenek
>
>> On Dec 8, 2017, at 14:11, "benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>" <benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se>> wrote:
>>
>> No it’s not about you, it’s  about the way people form the group you apparently represent have been acting in discussions.
>> And that have imo been manipulating for making no progress.
>>
>> Well free privacy whois isn't a solution as long as the anti abuse people states that it will create problems for the user.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>>
>> Benny Samuelsen
>> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>>
>> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
>> IANA-ID: 638
>> Phone: +46.42197000<tel:%2B46.42197000>
>> Direct: +47.32260201<tel:%2B47.32260201>
>> Mobile: +47.40410200<tel:%2B47.40410200>
>>
>>> On 8 Dec 2017, at 07:00, John Bambenek <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com<mailto:jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> You seem to think this is about me and not the dozens of security and anti-abuse professionals who have left this list... I am not sure why you think that.
>>>
>>> You also seem to think by saying I haven't come up with a better solution (whois privacy for free) or that I support that status quo (I do not), that it makes it true.
>>>
>>> But it's also when we talk about exactly those things Chuck chimes in to say we aren't there yet, which is why I've refrained.
>>>
>>> I will be contributing once we are talking about those issues as I have been contributing in ways outside your visibility up to this point.
>>>
>>> But that doesn't mitigate or change the conduct of members of this list who have engaged in a pattern of bullying, manipulation, and sexism to try to make their point. It has not gone unnoticed.
>>>
>>> j
>>>> On 12/07/2017 11:42 PM, benny at nordreg.se<mailto:benny at nordreg.se> wrote:
>>>> Sorry to point it out but imo you have bullied yourself of the buss with not wanting to contribute to a new solution where you can exist but in same time we can make a better solution overall which not equal Status Quo.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On 7 Dec 2017, at 22:17, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The question has never been asked directly. So you want to get me on the bus, ask the question, as I have phrased it             directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> But considering almost all the anti-abuse and security types have more or less been bullied off the bus, does it really matter anymore?
>>>>>
>>>>> j
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/07/2017 03:01 PM, theo geurts wrote:
>>>>>> And as confirmed by Hamilton.
>>>>>> And as confirmed by the Dutch DPA.
>>>>>> And as confirmed by WP29.
>>>>>> John, why do we keep having this conversation?
>>>>>> What do we need to do here to get you on the bus, so we do not get under the bus?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Theo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7-12-2017 21:41, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>>>>>> No, not necessarily. The criteria for obtaining valid, freely-given consent is demanding, and one cannot be asked to consent to processing that is otherwise unlawful. We were told in the first legal memo from WSGR that consent is not a silver bullet here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> — Ayden
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Article 29 Working Party to ICANN
>>>>>>>> Local Time: 7 December 2017 8:18 PM
>>>>>>>> UTC Time: 7 December 2017 20:18
>>>>>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>>> To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This interpretation is wrong. The latter clearly says that consent in the current system is not clearly given. If a domain holder had the free and informed option to publish information in whois or not THIS ISSUE IS SOLVED.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> John Bambenek
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2017, at 17:59, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Michele,
>>>>>>>>> I read this a final and very clear warning from the European DPAs to ICANN and its contracted parties to stop messing about and start getting ready in time for May 25. The references to previous notices make it very clear that there will be no  consideration given after that date. While the letter contains nothing new to anyone who has paid any attention, it is very clear in its message: Public Whois is illegal in its current shape and form, and there is no way to make it legal without making it non-public.
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Volker
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Am 06.12.2017 um 21:49 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
>>>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd highly recommend that you take the time to read the latest letter from the Article 29 Working Party to ICANN:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/falque-pierrotin-to-chalaby-marby-06Dec17-en.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (also attached)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For clarity the Article 29 WP represents the views of the DPAs of the EU member states. In many instances DPAs will address their concerns via this group rather than individually.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michele
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>>>>>>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>>>>>>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.blacknight.com/
>>>>>>>>>> https://blacknight.blog/
>>>>>>>>>> https://ceo.hosting/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072>
>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090>
>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
>>>>>>>>>> Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>>>>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>>>>>>> - legal department -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
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>>>>>>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert<https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+%0D+%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E%3E+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901>
>>>>>>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851>
>>>>>>>>> Email:
>>>>>>>>> vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
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>>>>>>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
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>>>>>>>>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>
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Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

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www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu/>

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann

- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

66386 St. Ingbert

Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901

Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851

Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>

Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net/> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.rrpproxy.net/>

www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com/> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.brandshelter.com/>

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:

www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>

www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>

CEO: Alexander Siffrin

Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken

V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP

www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu/>

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