[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPROTANT - Action Items and Notes from Next-Generation RDS PDP Working Group Call - 17 May 2017

Paul Keating Paul at law.es
Wed May 17 17:10:14 UTC 2017


+1

On 5/17/17, 6:40 PM, "Michael Peddemors"
<gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of michael at linuxmagic.com>
wrote:

>Yes, this is the common argument, however IMHO this is a red herring..
>There are more efficient ways for 'harvesters' to gain data, and others
>way to prevent such abuse..
>
>Again, IMHO this argument is another case of impacting the many
>legitimate users, for the sake of a few bad apples..
>
>And I havent' seen any arguments yet, of a case scenario which can't be
>addressed by other means..
>
>* Spammers can find better databases (less tech savvy targets, and
>cheaper than data mining whois records) by buying online lists of
>compromised email account data.
>* Fake Domain Renewal Notices? Again, a selected few who are quickly
>listed as spammers, and should be pursued via alternative (law
>enforcement/legal) methods.
>
>Yet we can show many case scenarios's where that data availability
>provides productive information for abuse prevention, that are not
>available via other means..
>
>This argument still needs to be put to bed.. and it should be based on
>case scenario arguments, and not just the 'perception' of abuse, and
>abuse is abuse and should be treated as such..
>
>And this is part of this process, making those valued decisions of what
>data SHOULD be freely available, and what data doesn't need to be
>available, or where the risks outweigh the rewards..
>
>(and of course the 'thorny' argument of privacy legislation(s) in
>various jurisdictions)
>
>On 17-05-17 09:14 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
>> To prevent abuse, spam, resale, creation of parallel databases, to name
>> just a few reasons.
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 17.05.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Greg Shatan:
>>> Why do we want to prevent harvesting? Asking for a friend.
>>>
>>> *Greg Shatan
>>> *C: 917-816-6428
>>> S: gsshatan
>>> gregshatanipc at gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Volker Greimann
>>> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I can see dozens of legitimate reasons for restricting access that
>>>     are not related to the efficiencies of the data retrieval system,
>>>     first of which is harvesting prevention.
>>>
>>>     Volker
>>>
>>>
>>>     Am 17.05.2017 um 17:55 schrieb Paul Keating:
>>>>     */³There must be no RDS policies that prevent RDS operators from
>>>>     applying operational controls such as rate limiting and CAPTCHA,
>>>>     provided that they do not unreasonably restrict legitimate
>>>>     access.³/*,
>>>>
>>>>     Caveat.  The rate controls must be related to controlling the
>>>>     efficiiciencies of the underlying data retrieval system and not
>>>>     for o there purposes.
>>>>
>>>>     PRK
>>>>     From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>     <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Amr
>>>>     Elsadr <amr.elsadr at icann.org <mailto:amr.elsadr at icann.org>>
>>>>     Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 9:48 AM
>>>>     To: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>     <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>     <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
>>>>     Subject: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPROTANT - Action Items and Notes
>>>>     from Next-Generation RDS PDP Working Group Call - 17 May 2017
>>>>
>>>>         Dear Working Group Members,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         Please find below the action items and notes from today¹s
>>>>         Working Group call.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         Amr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         /These high-level notes are designed to help PDP WG members
>>>>         navigate through the content of the call and are not meant as
>>>>         a substitute for the transcript and/or recording. The MP3,
>>>>         transcript, and chat are provided separately and are posted
>>>>         on the wiki here: https://community.icann.org/x/HMPRAw
>>>>         <https://community.icann.org/x/HMPRAw>/
>>>>
>>>>         / /
>>>>
>>>>         *Action Items:*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         1. Newcomers to RSVP to Newcomer Tutorial invitation if you
>>>>         plan to attend
>>>>
>>>>         2. Staff to launch poll the test revised item 2) in statement
>>>>         of purpose
>>>>         
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56986791/KeyConceptsD
>>>>eliberation-WorkingDraft-9May2017.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=149437
>>>>2838376&api=v2>
>>>>         and revised 2 May agreement:
>>>>
>>>>         a. The test revised item 2) in statement of purpose
>>>>         
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56986791/KeyConceptsD
>>>>eliberation-WorkingDraft-9May2017.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=149437
>>>>2838376&api=v2>:
>>>>         "2) A purpose of RDS is to facilitate dissemination of gTLD
>>>>         registration data of record, such as domain names and their
>>>>         domain contacts and name servers, in accordance with
>>>>         applicable policy.²
>>>>
>>>>         b. Revised 2 May agreement: "gTLD registration "thin data"
>>>>         must be accessible without requestor identification,
>>>>         authentication, or stated purpose"
>>>>
>>>>         WG members to participate in poll by COB Saturday 20 May.
>>>>
>>>>         3. Rod Rasmussen and Vaibhav Aggarwal to work together to
>>>>         define what "unreasonably restrict legitimate access" means
>>>>         in the context of this statement */³There must be no RDS
>>>>         policies that prevent RDS operators from applying operational
>>>>         controls such as rate limiting and CAPTCHA, provided that
>>>>         they do not unreasonably restrict legitimate access.³/*, and
>>>>         propose that definition to WG mailing list, preferably before
>>>>         next week's WG call
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         *Notes:*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         1) Roll Call/SOI Updates
>>>>
>>>>           * Attendance will be taken from AC
>>>>           * Please remember to state your name before speaking and
>>>>             remember to mute your microphones when not speaking
>>>>           * SOI updates: none
>>>>
>>>>         2) Brief updates
>>>>         a) Newcomer tutorial plans:
>>>>
>>>>           * Tuesday 23 May, immediately following WG Call
>>>>           * Recording to be available for on-demand replay
>>>>
>>>>         *Action Item:* Newcomers to RSVP to Newcomer Tutorial
>>>>         invitation if you plan to attend
>>>>
>>>>         b) ICANN59 meeting plans:
>>>>
>>>>           * Monday 26 June Cross-Community Session on RDS
>>>>           * Tuesday 27 June Face-to-Face RDS PDP WG Session
>>>>
>>>>         3) Review proposed-final definition(s) to replace
>>>>         "authoritative" in Statement of Purpose, Item 2):
>>>>
>>>>           * 
>>>>https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/DataOfRecord-
>>>>Proposal.pdf
>>>>             
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/DataOfRecord
>>>>-Proposal.pdf>
>>>>           * Recommendation on how to proceed with replacement term
>>>>             for "authoritative"
>>>>           * Starting with poll results from 28 March for Statement of
>>>>             Purpose item 2) - substitute term "Data of Record" so
>>>>             that item will read:
>>>>           * "2) A purpose of RDS is to facilitate dissemination of
>>>>             gTLD registration data of record, such as domain names
>>>>             and their domain contacts and name servers, in accordance
>>>>             with applicable policy.²
>>>>           * Definition: "the data set at a given time relevant to a
>>>>             given registration object that expresses the data
>>>>             provided in the then-current registration for that
>>>>object.²
>>>>           * Can still later consider "source of record" but does not
>>>>             appear needed to convey intent of this item in the
>>>>             statement of purpose
>>>>
>>>>         *Proposed WG Agreement (to test with poll): *"2) A purpose of
>>>>         RDS is to facilitate dissemination of gTLD registration data
>>>>         of record, such as domain names and their domain contacts and
>>>>         name servers, in accordance with applicable policy.²
>>>>         (including footnoted definition above)
>>>>
>>>>         4) Continue deliberation on the charter question 5: What
>>>>         steps should be taken to control "thin data" access?
>>>>
>>>>           * See
>>>>             handout
>>>>https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/Charter%20Que
>>>>stion%205%20-%20Handout%20-%20For17MayCall%20v2.pdf
>>>>             
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/Charter%20Qu
>>>>estion%205%20-%20Handout%20-%20For17MayCall%20v2.pdf>
>>>>           * Full results available
>>>>             at
>>>>https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/SummaryResult
>>>>s-Poll-from-9MayCall.pdf
>>>>             
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/SummaryResul
>>>>ts-Poll-from-9MayCall.pdf>
>>>>
>>>>         a) Is "thin data" access authentication required or allowed?
>>>>
>>>>           * Proposed answer: Based on Poll Question 2) Option e)
>>>>           * "Thin data elements must be accessible without requestor
>>>>             authentication."
>>>>           * With 33 responses, option e) had greatest support and
>>>>             least opposition - but not rough consensus
>>>>           * Does "inquirers identifying themselves" or
>>>>             "authentication" imply a person rather than a machine
>>>>             making the request?
>>>>           * First proposed change "gTLD registration "thin data"
>>>>             should be accessible without inquirer identification or
>>>>             stating purpose".
>>>>           * Consider combining option e) with this agreement, and
>>>>             using "requestor" instead of "inquirer" for consistency
>>>>           * Revised/combined proposed change "gTLD registration "thin
>>>>             data" must be accessible without requestor
>>>>             identification, authentication, or stated purpose".
>>>>
>>>>         *Proposed WG Agreement (to test with poll):* "gTLD
>>>>         registration "thin data" must be accessible without requestor
>>>>         identification, authentication, or stated purpose".
>>>>
>>>>         b) Is "thin data" access anonymity required or allowed?
>>>>
>>>>           * Proposed answer: Based on Poll Question 2) Comment 9:
>>>>           * "Access to thin registration data must be provided to
>>>>             anonymous requestors."
>>>>           * Does anyone think we must refer to anonymity or is
>>>>             proposed agreement in a) sufficient?
>>>>           * Introduces a new term that may be problematic.
>>>>           * Why do we need to define anonymous now? Thick data for
>>>>             LEA we may need to define anonymous and untraceable and a
>>>>             whole slew of things but we are only on thin data now,
>>>>right?
>>>>           * The current proposal (under a above) says what the
>>>>             requestor does _not_ have to give, rather than trying to
>>>>             create an attribute of the requestor
>>>>
>>>>         c) Do we need to define "authentication"?
>>>>
>>>>           * We might need to define it later (since we say that there
>>>>             is no authentification required for thin data) - may need
>>>>             to define it for thick data
>>>>           * Is "according to policy" implicit in WG agreements? We
>>>>             haven't yet agreed on specific "thin data" elements yet
>>>>
>>>>         *Action Item:* Staff to launch poll the test revised item 2)
>>>>         in statement of purpose and revised 2 May agreement (the two
>>>>         Proposed WG Agreements above). WG members to participate in
>>>>         poll by COB Saturday 20 May.
>>>>
>>>>         d) Should policies allow or prevent application of
>>>>         operational controls?
>>>>
>>>>           * Rough consensus WG Agreement (75%) on Poll Question 3):
>>>>           * /"There must be no RDS policies that prevent RDS
>>>>             operators from applying operational controls such as rate
>>>>             limiting and CAPTCHA, provided that they do not
>>>>             unreasonably restrict legitimate access."/
>>>>           * Need to define specific policy for "reasonable" and
>>>>             "legitimate" during Phase 2 of this PDP?
>>>>           * Is there a need for an explicit statement like this? If
>>>>             the information is public, is it necessary to limit to
>>>>             prevent scraping? Or is rate limiting being used to limit
>>>>             legitimate access - can't ignore this gaming/artificial
>>>>             limit possibility.
>>>>           * Note 2013 RAA 3.3.5 states "Registrar shall permit use of
>>>>             data it provides in response to queries for any lawful
>>>>             purposes except to...(b) enable high volume, automated,
>>>>             electronic processes that send queries or data to the
>>>>             systems of any Registry Operator or ICANN-Accredited
>>>>             registrar, except as reasonably necessary to register
>>>>             domain names or modify existing registrations."
>>>>           * Perhaps rather than saying something about rate-limiting
>>>>             per se, we need an SLA about the level of access that
>>>>             must be supported.
>>>>           * Remaining silent on this point may lead to policies that
>>>>             interfere with use of operational controls - but using
>>>>             "unreasonably restrict legitimate access" may leap this
>>>>             too open ended
>>>>           * Agreed to put this rough consensus point on hold, pending
>>>>             definition of what "unreasonably restrict legitimate
>>>>             access" means
>>>>
>>>>         *Action Item:* Rod Rasmussen and Vaibhav Aggarwal to work
>>>>         together to define what "unreasonably restrict legitimate
>>>>         access" means in the context of this statement and propose
>>>>         that definition to WG mailing list, preferrably before next
>>>>         week's WG call.
>>>>
>>>>         e) Review all of charter question 5 sub-questions with goal
>>>>         to complete first pass deliberation on "thin data" access in
>>>>May
>>>>
>>>>           * DEFERRED TO 23 MAY WG MEETING
>>>>
>>>>         5) Confirm action items and proposed decision points
>>>>
>>>>           * *Proposed WG Agreement (to test with poll): *"2) A
>>>>             purpose of RDS is to facilitate dissemination of gTLD
>>>>             registration data of record, such as domain names and
>>>>             their domain contacts and name servers, in accordance
>>>>             with applicable policy.² (including footnoted definition
>>>>             above)
>>>>           * *Proposed WG Agreement (to test with poll):* "gTLD
>>>>             registration "thin data" must be accessible without
>>>>             requestor identification, authentication, or stated
>>>>purpose".
>>>>           * *Action Item:* Newcomers to RSVP to Newcomer Tutorial
>>>>             invitation if you plan to attend
>>>>           * *Action Item:* Staff to launch poll the test revised item
>>>>             2) in statement of purpose and revised 2 May agreement
>>>>             (the two Proposed WG Agreements above). WG members to
>>>>             participate in poll by COB Saturday 20 May.
>>>>           * *Action Item:* Rod Rasmussen and Vaibhav Aggarwal to work
>>>>             together to define what "unreasonably restrict legitimate
>>>>             access" means in the context of this statement and
>>>>             propose that definition to WG mailing list, preferably
>>>>             before next week's WG call.
>>>>
>>>>         6) Confirm next meeting date: 23 May 2017 at 16:00 UTC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         *Meeting Materials*
>>>>
>>>>           * *Data of Record Proposal
>>>>             
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/DataOfRecord
>>>>-Proposal.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1494989338000&api=v2>*
>>>>           * *Charter Question 5 - Handout - For17MayCall.pdf
>>>>             
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/Charter%20Qu
>>>>estion%205%20-%20Handout%20-%20For17MayCall%20v2.pdf?version=1&modifica
>>>>tionDate=1494961615000&api=v2>*
>>>>           * *KeyConceptsDeliberation-WorkingDraft-9May2017.pdf
>>>>             
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56986791/KeyConceptsD
>>>>eliberation-WorkingDraft-9May2017.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=149437
>>>>2838376&api=v2> *and *doc
>>>>             
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/56986791/KeyConceptsD
>>>>eliberation-WorkingDraft-9May2017.docx?version=1&modificationDate=14943
>>>>72853897&api=v2>*
>>>>
>>>>           * *9 May Call Poll Results -*
>>>>               o PDF of Poll Questions:* /Poll-from-9MayCall.pdf
>>>>               
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078610/Poll-from-9M
>>>>ayCall.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1494374689000&api=v2>/*
>>>>               o SurveyMonkey Summary Poll
>>>>                 Results: */SummaryResults-Poll-from-9MayCall.pdf
>>>>               
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/SummaryResul
>>>>ts-Poll-from-9MayCall.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1494787660000&api=
>>>>v2>/*
>>>>               o SurveyMonkey Raw Data Poll
>>>>                 Results: */RawDataResults-Poll-from-9MayCall.zip
>>>>               
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/RawDataResul
>>>>ts-Poll-from-9MayCall.zip?version=1&modificationDate=1494787676000&api=
>>>>v2>/* and */XLS
>>>>               
>>>><https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/64078620/RawDataResul
>>>>ts-Poll-from-9MayCall.xls?version=1&modificationDate=1494787693000&api=
>>>>v2>/*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>         <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>         https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>         <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
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>>>>     https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>     <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>>>
>>>     --
>>>     Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>
>>>     Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>
>>>     Volker A. Greimann
>>>     - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>
>>>     Key-Systems GmbH
>>>     Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>     66386 St. Ingbert
>>>     Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
>>>     Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
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>>>
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>>>     - legal department -
>>>
>>>     Key-Systems GmbH
>>>     Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>     66386 St. Ingbert
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>>>     _______________________________________________ gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
>> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
>> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>>
>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>>
>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu
>>
>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen
>>Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder
>>Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese
>>Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns
>>per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to
>>contact us.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
>> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
>> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>>
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay
>>updated:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>>
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu
>>
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>
>
>
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