[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPROTANT - Action Items and Notes from Next-Generation RDS PDP Working Group Call - 17 May 2017

John Bambenek jcb at bambenekconsulting.com
Thu May 18 14:25:56 UTC 2017 

No, that's confidentiality. That's an entirely different component of security. 

And last I checked we aren't talking about publishing classified documents in whois. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 18, 2017, at 10:19, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
> 
> Corrcet. When certain private (or classified) information is freely available or made available to the wrong people, that certainly constitutes a security risk. No matter who does the releasing of the information.
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 18.05.2017 um 16:14 schrieb John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:
>> Availability is traditionally viewed as a security concern.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 18, 2017, at 10:01, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Load balancing isn’t really a security measure, more of a “let’s keep this stuff up and running and stable and usable”
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>> 
>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>> 
>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>> 
>>> http://www.blacknight.host/
>>> 
>>> http://blacknight.blog /
>>> 
>>> http://ceo.hosting/
>>> 
>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>> 
>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>> 
>>> -------------------------------
>>> 
>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>> 
>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>> 
>>> On 18/05/2017, 13:46, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of Gomes, Chuck via gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    Is load balancing always a security measure?
>>> 
>>>    Chuck
>>> 
>>>    -----Original Message-----
>>>    From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Keating
>>>    Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 6:18 AM
>>>    To: benny at nordreg.se
>>>    Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>    Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPROTANT - Action Items and Notes from Next-Generation RDS PDP Working Group Call - 17 May 2017
>>> 
>>>    I am agreeable only to those restrictions imposed as a security measure by the source (e.g. Load balancing, etc).
>>> 
>>>    Paul
>>> 
>>>>    On 5/18/17, 12:06 PM, "benny at nordreg.se" <benny at nordreg.se> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> There can be technical issues where you need to do so, that was pointed
>>>> out during the call
>>>> --
>>>> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>>>> 
>>>> Benny Samuelsen
>>>> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>>>> 
>>>> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
>>>> IANA-ID: 638
>>>> Phone: +46.42197080
>>>> Direct: +47.32260201
>>>> Mobile: +47.40410200
>>>> 
>>>>> On 18 May 2017, at 11:59, Paul Keating <Paul at law.es> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, the CURRENT issue is Thin Data only.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My comment was indented to deal with what I understood to be a
>>>>> re-assertion that THIN DATA be subject to access restriction.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To reiterate,  There is no basis to restrict THIN DATA (IMHO) for the
>>>>> simple reason that there is no Personal ID Data in the set.  Nor are
>>>>> there any intellectual property rights in THIN DATA.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That means anyone can harvest what they want subject only to load
>>>>> balancing restrictions imposed by the source from which the data is
>>>>> being harvested.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Chris Pelling
>>>>> <chris at netearth.net>
>>>>> Date: Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 11:46 AM
>>>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPROTANT - Action Items and Notes
>>>>> from Next-Generation RDS PDP Working Group Call - 17 May 2017
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Got to agree with Andrew on this - my thoughts on thin is exactly
>>>>>> what Verisign shows now which is basically domain name, dates,
>>>>>> registrar, nameservers and status << That is the common term of "THIN DATA".
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As I said, thin data I have no issues with, even data harvesting
>>>>>> companies having it lawfully.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: "Andrew Sullivan" <ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>
>>>>>> To: "Paul Keating" <paul at law.es>
>>>>>> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 18 May, 2017 00:52:33
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPROTANT - Action Items and Notes from
>>>>>>      Next-Generation RDS PDP Working Group Call - 17 May 2017
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, the data we are currently discussing is thin data.  Among it, I
>>>>>> believe only the domain name and maybe the name servers are entered
>>>>>> by the registrant, and both of those are required if there is to be a
>>>>>> domain name that works on the Internet.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I find it quite frustrating that we do not seem to be able, as a
>>>>>> group, to keep these elementary distinctions before us during
>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Andrew Sullivan
>>>>>> Please excuse my clumbsy thums.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On May 17, 2017, at 18:06, Paul Keating <paul at law.es> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Licensing what and from whom?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is data entered by the registrant.  Privacy issues apply only
>>>>>>> to the subset of individuals.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 17 May 2017, at 23:38, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> One way to deal with harvesters is through a licensing set-up.
>>>>>>>> There are legitimate reasons to have the full dataset, and these
>>>>>>>> should be accommodated in a controlled environment.  Preventing bad
>>>>>>>> harvesters is worthwhile, prevent all harvesting is another issue
>>>>>>>> entirely....
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Greg Shatan
>>>>>>>> C: 917-816-6428
>>>>>>>> S: gsshatan
>>>>>>>> gregshatanipc at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 3:00 PM, Michael Peddemors
>>>>>>>> <michael at linuxmagic.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 17-05-17 10:46 AM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 17/5/17 9:40 am, Michael Peddemors wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, this is the common argument, however IMHO this is a red
>>>>>>>>>>> herring..
>>>>>>>>>>> There are more efficient ways for 'harvesters' to gain data,
>>>>>>>>>>> and  others way to prevent such abuse..
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Again, IMHO this argument is another case of impacting the many
>>>>>>>>>>> legitimate users, for the sake of a few bad apples..
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> And I havent' seen any arguments yet, of a case scenario which
>>>>>>>>>>> can't  be addressed by other means..
>>>>>>>>>> So to reverse this, what are the *legitimate* purposes of
>>>>>>>>>> harvesting?
>>>>>>>>> Who said anything about arguing for 'harvesting' as a legitimate
>>>>>>>>> purpose?  I didn't, and even pointed out that there are way(s) to
>>>>>>>>> target harvesters..
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I was pointing out the legitimate purposes of accessing the data..
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> And many of those cases have already been stated, I could
>>>>>>>>> re-iterate those arguments, and give examples of why 'we' need to
>>>>>>>>> access the data, but again, 'harvesting' is different than access.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Arguing that we 'have to stop harvesters' by denying access to
>>>>>>>>> the data for legitimate purposes was the original point.  There
>>>>>>>>> are other means to target those perpetrators..  But it shouldn't
>>>>>>>>> be used as a 'scary boogeyman' exists, so everyone lock your doors.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> To paraphrase.. "Just because criminals exist, doesn't mean that
>>>>>>>>> civilians can't walk the street".  That is a 'gut reaction' of
>>>>>>>>> fear, and not a solution.  Better policing, targeting criminals,
>>>>>>>>> or carry a big stick solves that :)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Nuff said.. as I said, lets' place case scenario's and argument
>>>>>>>>> each on their merits.. and not react to a 'undefinable' threat..
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> "Catch the Magic of Linux..."
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> Michael Peddemors, President/CEO LinuxMagic Inc.
>>>>>>>>> Visit us at http://www.linuxmagic.com @linuxmagic
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> A Wizard IT Company - For More Info http://www.wizard.ca
>>>>>>>>> "LinuxMagic" a Registered TradeMark of Wizard Tower TechnoServices
>>>>>>>>> Ltd.
>>>>>>>>> 
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