[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
Alan Greenberg
alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
Sat Sep 23 16:31:25 UTC 2017
The RDS-WHOIS2 RT is meeting in Brussels on 02-03
October, but that is unrelated to the meeting
planned being discussed. It was hoped that a
meeting with the EC and data commissioners could
be arranged for the first week of October, but it
is now deferred until sometime after ICANN60.
See
https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/council/2017-September/020390.html
and https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/council/2017-September/020431.html.
Alan
Interim Chair, RDS-WHOIS2-RT
At 23/09/2017 11:22 AM, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>Hi,
>
>The
><https://community.icann.org/display/WHO/RDS-WHOIS2+Review>WHOIS2
>Review Team has a face-to-face meeting in Brussels next month.
>
>—Ayden
>
>
>>-------- Original Message --------
>>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
>>Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>Local Time: 23 September 2017 4:18 PM
>>UTC Time: 23 September 2017 15:18
>>From: met at msk.com
>>To: 'Marika Konings'
>><marika.konings at icann.org>, 'Stephanie Perrin'
>><stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>,
>>'gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org' <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>
>>Thanks for sharing this Marika?
>>
>>What RDS F2F in Brussels is James referring to
>>in his message? Is it a meeting of this WG or something else?
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>Sent with Good (www.good.com)
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Marika Konings
>>[<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>marika.konings at icann.org]
>>Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 06:22 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>To: Stephanie Perrin; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
>>Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>
>>
>>In relation to the Brussels meeting, please see
>>the message that James Bladel just shared with
>>the GNSO Council. I’ll follow up with my
>>colleagues to see if there is further
>>information available about the panel in Hong Kong. I’ll keep you posted.
>>
>>
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>Marika
>>
>>
>>
>>From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on
>>behalf of Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>
>>Date: Friday, September 22, 2017 at 17:55
>>To: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
>>Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>
>>
>>
>>I actually think everyone is correct here, and
>>if you all agree with me then I will go apply
>>for a job at the UN, they seem to need help.
>>
>>1. First, I am not sure exactly what Fab was
>>quoting me on, but I think we need to have some
>>idea what ICANN is saying to the DPAs. As
>>indicated, there is a Board member and ICANN VP
>>travelling to Hong Kong, to be on a panel with
>>the EDPS and the UN special rapporteur at a
>>conference of the world data commissioners last
>>week in September....surely we might get a
>>little look at their speeches to inform
>>ourselves? I have read Goran's letter to
>>Buttarelli and am still wondering what that is
>>about.....unless it is to follow up on meetings
>>which we have not heard about. So all I was
>>asking for was a wee bit more transparency as
>>to what is going on. Unfortunately CHuck was
>>cutting out in his response, but I gather he
>>was not wiser than I as to what is going
>>on. Perhaps Marika could inquire and get back to us?
>>
>>2. We in the GNSO Council have been told there
>>will be a meeting in Brussels of a select few,
>>to talk to the DPAs, in early October. Still
>>no date. I don't find that acceptable, and
>>again I think we have a right to know what is
>>being said/negotiated. Naturally I would like
>>to be there as the NCSG rep, given the amount
>>of research I have done on this issue, but if
>>we don't find out soon it will have to be somebody else.
>>
>>3. This PDP should continue along its course,
>>but hopefully soon, a little better informed by
>>the legal analysis which the leadership team
>>has received. That ought to speed up our process, in my view.
>>
>>4. While I am of the view that the RAA and the
>>Registry contracts are full of policy issues
>>that deserve attention, I do agree with Volker
>>that interpreting the expression "compliance
>>with local law" or its variants in the RAA
>>ought to be left up to them. And that, as you
>>all know by now, in my opinion means a much
>>more private WHOIS, fewer international data
>>transfers, and greater authentication of third
>>party data recipients. The fact that we have
>>been arguing about these very issues since 1998
>>continues to stun and fascinate me.
>>
>>5. If anyone is meeting with the Easter Bunny,
>>please bring chocolate to Abu. Looks like it
>>is going to be a strenuous meeting. Lindt will be fine.
>>
>>cheers Stephanie
>>
>>
>>
>>On 2017-09-22 12:27, Volker Greimann wrote:
>>The community does not have any active role to
>>play when it comes to the interpretation and
>>enforcement of ICANN contracts and
>>international law. This is an issue that
>>contracted parties will have to work out with
>>ICANN. To the contrary, I find it very, very
>>disturbing that certain interest groups believe they have a role to play here.
>>Once the fallout becomes cleared and it has
>>been determined which policies and obligations
>>are problematic, the comunity comes back in and
>>can start working on replacement policies. GDPR
>>will have a profound impact on RDS, as current
>>practices simply do not work anymore. While
>>some tout consent as the solve-all, be reminded
>>that consent must be free, informed, and can be
>>revoked at any time, without consequence to the service being provided.
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Volker
>>
>>Am 22.09.2017 um 18:19 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:
>>
>>Hi Fab,
>>
>>Thanks for your insights into this. You raise
>>a really interesting and important point. I
>>tend to agree with you that the lack of
>>community engagement in the GDPR-preparedness
>>discussions is very very disturbing. I’m not
>>sure I agree that it should be conflated with
>>the RDS PDP. I see the GDPR discussions as
>>related to Whois “as is†if you will. I
>>see the RDS group as dealing with the future of
>>Whois, that is creating an “ideal†(or as
>>ideal as possible considering we govern by
>>committee) system. If anything, I think RDS
>>should suspend its work until we understand
>>more fully the implications of the GDPR on
>>Whois
. but II don’t think the RDS
>>discussions have a place in the GDPR discussions.
>>
>>That said, I do think we have a ton of experts
>>in this group, and we should probably all be
>>participating in whatever capacity we can in both discussions.
>>
>>I hope that makes sense and that I’m
>>appropriately understanding what your concerns are.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>
>>Kiran
>>
>>
>>Kiran Malancharuvil
>>Policy
>>
>>MarkMonitor
>>415.222.8318 (t)
>>415.419.9138 (m)
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>>From:
>><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On
>>Behalf Of Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie)
>>Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 8:16 AM
>>To: Andrew Sullivan
>><mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com><ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>;
>><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
>>Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>
>>Appreciate this feedback, Andrew. Simply put,
>>my concern is that these independent and
>>misinformed conversations will result in bad
>>decision making that will run counter to our
>>efforts here in this duly-constituted PDP WG
>>that is following the standard ICANN processes
>>for developing policy -- if not render them
>>useless altogether. Which in turn highlights
>>my earlier comment that this side-show effort
>>from ICANN runs counter to the bottom up /
>>standard ICANN processes for developing policy.
>>
>>Maybe it's just me making a mountain out of a
>>molehill, but Stephanie echoing these concerns
>>on the last call encouraged me to reach out to
>>my fellow WG members to see if others share the
>>concern and wanted to act on it.
>>
>>Others?
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:
>><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan
>>Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:09 AM
>>To: <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
>>Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 02:51:44PM +0000,
>>Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie) wrote:
>> >
>> > I couldn’t agree more with Stephanie and
>> find it incredible that ICANN, despite our
>> ongoing efforts and the plethora of published
>> community concerns, are continuing with the
>> approach of rushing to discussions with Data
>> Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>> “half-cocked.†Putting aside the apparent
>> widely shared view that this approach is
>> misinformed and dangerous, it’s simply
>> redundant of and does not take advantage of
>> our work within this PDP process -- one could
>> even say that it runs counter to the bottom up
>> and community led initiative on RDS/WHOIS.
>> >
>>
>>I don't understand what the problem is supposed to be. We are a
>>duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the standard ICANN processes
>>for developing policy. If other parts of ICANN want to talk to data
>>protection and privacy commissioners, or activists in favour of
>>publishing all personal data available in the universe, or privacy
>>activists who think the DNS should be closed in favour of onion
>>routing, or the committee of the Present King of France and the Easter
>>Bunny, why should we care? In the event (for which I have diminshing
>>hope) that we publish a report that is actionable by the GNSO, the
>>ordinary ICANN policy mechanisms will grind forward no matter what
>>meetings people have had.
>>
>>We can best contribute to that end, in my opinion, by focussing on
>>getting done the work that we are supposed to be doing, rather than
>>worrying about all the other things other people might be doing. By
>>concentrating on this and making some progress, we might even reduce
>>the temptation of others to second guess this process. At the rate we
>>are currently moving, we appear to be destined to deliver something
>>
>>right after heat death of the universe, and I suggest that that pace
>>is partly because there is no issue on which people are willing to
>>focus, come to a clear conclusion, and then let that conclusion stand.
>>
>>I therefore urge that we focus on our task and not make our job harder
>>than it already is by attending to outside distractions.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>A
>>
>>--
>>Andrew Sullivan
>>
>><mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
>>_______________________________________________
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