[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
Alan Greenberg
alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
Tue Sep 26 14:08:52 UTC 2017
So the non-expert and the expert agree!
--
Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.
On September 26, 2017 8:34:53 AM EDT, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>With all due modesty, I am an expert in privacy legislation, having
>worked in this field since 1984 in most capacities (and most
>particularly, directing the drafting of the federal law here in
>Canada).
>TBDF provisions appear in most data protection law, they are also
>covered in many national constitutions and it is therefore impossible
>to
>actually separate out TBDF from any privacy impact assessment of ICANN
>policy and implementation. I don't think an explicit mention in our
>Charter is at all necessary, we cannot examine privacy without looking
>at TBDF.
>
>Stephanie Perrin
>
>
>On 2017-09-25 09:24, Alan Greenberg wrote:
>> I am far from an expert on privacy legislation. GDPR is probably as
>> good a base to look at as any, and perhaps better than some. I do not
>
>> think we are in a position to survey all country's privacy
>legislation
>> to ensure that we are in compliance, and even if we did, laws change
>> over time. So we will need to put in place a framework that can adapt
>
>> to local requirements.
>>
>> One issue that I do not think has been discussed (and is not even
>> mentioned in our charter) is transborder data flow. ALthough that may
>
>> be more associated with implementation, I suspect we will have to
>> think about it, if only to say that implementation needs to address
>> it. In that case, European legislation may not be the most stringent.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> At 25/09/2017 08:57 AM, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Erica,
>>>
>>> That is a good question.
>>>
>>> My view is that GDPR is the best baseline that we have. I say for
>>> this for two reasons. Firstly, because the Council of the European
>>> Union has advised the European Commission that it cannot negotiate
>>> away privacy rights in trade agreements. And secondly, as I touched
>>> upon in an email a few days ago, over 100 countries now have data
>>> protection laws, many of which were modelled after the European
>>> Union’s 1995 Data Protection Directive. It seems possible to me
>>> that a desire to emulate best practices could see these laws, based
>>> upon the earlier 1995 standard, updated to reflect the standard now
>>> set by GDPR.
>>>
>>> I am happy, of course, to hear alternative perspectives on this
>issue.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Ayden Férdeline
>>> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with
>>>> Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>>> Local Time: 25 September 2017 1:46 PM
>>>> UTC Time: 25 September 2017 12:46
>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>
>>>> It is clear that the PDP will have to be aware of and plan for
>>>> GDPR-like protections (and not limited to Europe).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jumping back to Kris' comment, and the reference to other privacy
>>>> regulations in various countries (i.e. South Africa), do we know
>for
>>>> certain that GDPR is our best baseline? For example, perhaps there
>>>> is a different regional set of regulations that are an even lower
>>>> common denominator that would ensure compliance not only with GDPR,
>
>>>> but other regions as well - and, hopefully, future laws. Possibly
>>>> this has been spoken about before (I'm still rather new here), but
>I
>>>> thought it may be worth confirming since so much of our information
>
>>>> flow, generally speaking, tends to come from the US and the EU over
>
>>>> other regions.
>>>>
>>>> Within the contect of ICANN, there is no other way to do this
>>>> but through a GNSO PDP, and hopefully we can actually complete
>>>> this and move forward. How timely we do it will depend on how
>>>> willing we are to work together to reach consensus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well said.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Erica
>>>>
>>>> Erica Varlese | .blog Shepherd @ KKWT
>>>> Email: erica at my.blog
>>>> Skype: evarlese
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Volker Greimann
>>>> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With the new proposals for whois privacy provider accreditation
>>>> currently in the works and the costs attached to that program
>>>> both in aded requirements that have to be followed and the
>>>> accreditation cost, this service will never be "free".
>>>>
>>>> Volker
>>>>
>>>> Am 23.09.2017 um 15:47 schrieb John Bambenek via
>gnso-rds-pdp-wg:
>>>>> Is one of there ways of exploring how to resolve the issue
>>>>> including making whois privacy for free for individual
>>>>> registrants?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> John Bambenek
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 22, 2017, at 21:06, Chuck <consult at cgomes.com
>>>>> <mailto:consult at cgomes.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Without in any way detracting from the concern for
>>>>>> ICANN transparency and the need for keeping our PDP
>>>>>> informed, I think it is important for us to recognize
>>>>>> a few things:
>>>>>> The GDPR is set to go into effect in May 2018.
>>>>>> While I am cautiously hopeful that the RDS PDP WG
>will
>>>>>> improve progress in our work, there is no way we will
>>>>>> be close to done by May 2018.
>>>>>> In the meantime, contracted parties will be faced
>with
>>>>>> some serious conflicts between the terms of their
>>>>>> agreements with ICANN and the GDPR that could result
>>>>>> in significant fines if they continue to comply with
>>>>>> their ICANN agreements.
>>>>>> Therefore, it does not seem unreasonable for ICANN
>>>>>> staff to be exploring ways to resolve this dilemma
>>>>>> until policy work can be completed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie)
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 8:16 AM
>>>>>> To: Andrew Sullivan <ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
>>>>>> <mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com> >;
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
>>>>>> Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and
>>>>>> Privacy Commissioners
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Appreciate this feedback, Andrew. Simply put, my
>>>>>> concern is that these independent and misinformed
>>>>>> conversations will result in bad decision making that
>>>>>> will run counter to our efforts here in this
>>>>>> duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the
>standard
>>>>>> ICANN processes for developing policy -- if not
>render
>>>>>> them useless altogether. Which in turn highlights my
>>>>>> earlier comment that this side-show effort from ICANN
>>>>>> runs counter to the bottom up / standard ICANN
>>>>>> processes for developing policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe it's just me making a mountain out of a
>>>>>> molehill, but Stephanie echoing these concerns on the
>>>>>> last call encouraged me to reach out to my fellow WG
>>>>>> members to see if others share the concern and wanted
>>>>>> to act on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Others?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of Andrew Sullivan
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:09 AM
>>>>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
>>>>>> Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and
>>>>>> Privacy Commissioners
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 02:51:44PM +0000, Vayra,
>>>>>> Fabricio (Perkins Coie) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > I couldn’t agree more with Stephanie and find it
>>>>>> incredible that ICANN, despite our ongoing efforts
>and
>>>>>> the plethora of published community concerns, are
>>>>>> continuing with the approach of rushing to
>discussions
>>>>>> with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>>>>> “half-cocked.†Putting aside the apparent widely
>>>>>> shared view that this approach is misinformed and
>>>>>> dangerous, it’s simply redundant of and does not
>>>>>> take advantage of our work within this PDP process --
>>>>>> one could even say that it runs counter to the bottom
>>>>>> up and community led initiative on RDS/WHOIS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't understand what the problem is supposed to
>>>>>> be. We are a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the
>standard
>>>>>> ICANN processes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for developing policy. If other parts of ICANN want
>>>>>> to talk to data
>>>>>>
>>>>>> protection and privacy commissioners, or activists in
>>>>>> favour of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> publishing all personal data available in the
>>>>>> universe, or privacy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> activists who think the DNS should be closed in
>favour
>>>>>> of onion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> routing, or the committee of the Present King of
>>>>>> France and the Easter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bunny, why should we care? In the event (for which I
>>>>>> have diminshing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hope) that we publish a report that is actionable by
>>>>>> the GNSO, the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ordinary ICANN policy mechanisms will grind forward
>no
>>>>>> matter what
>>>>>>
>>>>>> meetings people have had.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can best contribute to that end, in my opinion, by
>>>>>> focussing on
>>>>>>
>>>>>> getting done the work that we are supposed to be
>>>>>> doing, rather than
>>>>>>
>>>>>> worrying about all the other things other people
>might
>>>>>> be doing. By
>>>>>>
>>>>>> concentrating on this and making some progress, we
>>>>>> might even reduce
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the temptation of others to second guess this
>>>>>> process. At the rate we
>>>>>>
>>>>>> are currently moving, we appear to be destined to
>>>>>> deliver something
>>>>>>
>>>>>> right after heat death of the universe, and I suggest
>>>>>> that that pace
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is partly because there is no issue on which people
>>>>>> are willing to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> focus, come to a clear conclusion, and then let that
>>>>>> conclusion stand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I therefore urge that we focus on our task and not
>>>>>> make our job harder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> than it already is by attending to outside
>distractions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew Sullivan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
><mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dwg&d=DwIGaQ&c=XRWvQHnpdBDRh-yzrHjqLpXuHNC_9nanQc6pPG_SpT0&r=6lUxzkhJPN5qts-Nve5TYqxoGjP81z1kCvXgsmw-MiQ&m=9eU57wIVscyGuvbIbm2BAi8LELlVrSQBl5k9N2YJxfQ&s=EWf3FrLMoZXzDzHkrW30uyrwfH-GkQk1TGt5Jc2ndKs&e
>>>>>> =
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
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>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
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