[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Tue Sep 26 14:29:36 UTC 2017
There has been a plethora of legal cases brought by European citizens
against data transfers to the US under the cover of the privacy shield.
Privacy Shield was drawn up to replace a "Safe Harbor" mechanism, which
was struck down in 2015 by Europe's highest court because the
arrangement failed to sufficiently safeguard EU citizens' personal data.
Some further reading of the top of my google:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-dataprotection-usa/privacy-group-launches-legal-challenge-against-eu-u-s-data-pact-idUSKCN12Q2JK
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3138196/cloud-computing/a-second-privacy-shield-legal-challenge-increases-threat-to-eu-us-data-flows.html
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/06/safe_harbour_walls_come_tumbling_down/
TBDF is only legal if equivalent protections are ensured.
Best,
Volker
Am 26.09.2017 um 15:23 schrieb Dotzero:
> This raises an interesting question in my mind. Can anyone point to
> where public whois in the context of TBDF has been specifically called
> out, seen legal action, etc.? By it's very essence, the Internet is
> inherently trans-border.
>
> Michael Hammer
>
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 8:34 AM, Stephanie Perrin
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
> With all due modesty, I am an expert in privacy legislation,
> having worked in this field since 1984 in most capacities (and
> most particularly, directing the drafting of the federal law here
> in Canada). TBDF provisions appear in most data protection law,
> they are also covered in many national constitutions and it is
> therefore impossible to actually separate out TBDF from any
> privacy impact assessment of ICANN policy and implementation. I
> don't think an explicit mention in our Charter is at all
> necessary, we cannot examine privacy without looking at TBDF.
>
> Stephanie Perrin
>
>
> On 2017-09-25 09:24, Alan Greenberg wrote:
>> I am far from an expert on privacy legislation. GDPR is probably
>> as good a base to look at as any, and perhaps better than some. I
>> do not think we are in a position to survey all country's privacy
>> legislation to ensure that we are in compliance, and even if we
>> did, laws change over time. So we will need to put in place a
>> framework that can adapt to local requirements.
>>
>> One issue that I do not think has been discussed (and is not even
>> mentioned in our charter) is transborder data flow. ALthough that
>> may be more associated with implementation, I suspect we will
>> have to think about it, if only to say that implementation needs
>> to address it. In that case, European legislation may not be the
>> most stringent.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>> At 25/09/2017 08:57 AM, Ayden Férdeline wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Erica,
>>>
>>> That is a good question.
>>>
>>> My view is that GDPR is the best baseline that we have. I say
>>> for this for two reasons. Firstly, because the Council of the
>>> European Union has advised the European Commission that it
>>> cannot negotiate away privacy rights in trade agreements. And
>>> secondly, as I touched upon in an email a few days ago, over 100
>>> countries now have data protection laws, many of which were
>>> modelled after the European Union’s 1995 Data Protection
>>> Directive. It seems possible to me that a desire to emulate best
>>> practices could see these laws, based upon the earlier 1995
>>> standard, updated to reflect the standard now set by GDPR.
>>>
>>> I am happy, of course, to hear alternative perspectives on this
>>> issue.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Ayden Férdeline
>>> linkedin.com/in/ferdeline <http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN Meetings/Conversations
>>>> with Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners
>>>> Local Time: 25 September 2017 1:46 PM
>>>> UTC Time: 25 September 2017 12:46
>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>
>>>> It is clear that the PDP will have to be aware of and plan
>>>> for GDPR-like protections (and not limited to Europe).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jumping back to Kris' comment, and the reference to other
>>>> privacy regulations in various countries (i.e. South Africa),
>>>> do we know for certain that GDPR is our best baseline? For
>>>> example, perhaps there is a different regional set of
>>>> regulations that are an even lower common denominator that
>>>> would ensure compliance not only with GDPR, but other regions
>>>> as well - and, hopefully, future laws. Possibly this has been
>>>> spoken about before (I'm still rather new here), but I thought
>>>> it may be worth confirming since so much of our information
>>>> flow, generally speaking, tends to come from the US and the EU
>>>> over other regions.
>>>>
>>>> Within the contect of ICANN, there is no other way to do
>>>> this but through a GNSO PDP, and hopefully we can actually
>>>> complete this and move forward. How timely we do it will
>>>> depend on how willing we are to work together to reach
>>>> consensus.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well said.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Erica
>>>>
>>>> Erica Varlese | .blog Shepherd @ KKWT
>>>> Email: erica at my.blog <mailto:erica at my.blog>
>>>> Skype: evarlese
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 4:07 AM, Volker Greimann
>>>> <vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With the new proposals for whois privacy provider
>>>> accreditation currently in the works and the costs attached
>>>> to that program both in aded requirements that have to be
>>>> followed and the accreditation cost, this service will
>>>> never be "free".
>>>>
>>>> Volker
>>>>
>>>> Am 23.09.2017 um 15:47 schrieb John Bambenek via
>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg:
>>>>> Is one of there ways of exploring how to resolve the
>>>>> issue including making whois privacy for free for
>>>>> individual registrants?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> John Bambenek
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 22, 2017, at 21:06, Chuck <consult at cgomes.com
>>>>> <mailto:consult at cgomes.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Without in any way detracting from the concern
>>>>>> for ICANN transparency and the need for keeping
>>>>>> our PDP informed, I think it is important for us
>>>>>> to recognize a few things:
>>>>>> The GDPR is set to go into effect in May 2018.
>>>>>> While I am cautiously hopeful that the RDS PDP WG
>>>>>> will improve progress in our work, there is no
>>>>>> way we will be close to done by May 2018.
>>>>>> In the meantime, contracted parties will be faced
>>>>>> with some serious conflicts between the terms of
>>>>>> their agreements with ICANN and the GDPR that
>>>>>> could result in significant fines if they
>>>>>> continue to comply with their ICANN agreements.
>>>>>> Therefore, it does not seem unreasonable for
>>>>>> ICANN staff to be exploring ways to resolve this
>>>>>> dilemma until policy work can be completed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie)
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 8:16 AM
>>>>>> To: Andrew Sullivan <ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
>>>>>> <mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com> >;
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
>>>>>> Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and
>>>>>> Privacy Commissioners
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Appreciate this feedback, Andrew. Simply put, my
>>>>>> concern is that these independent and misinformed
>>>>>> conversations will result in bad decision making
>>>>>> that will run counter to our efforts here in this
>>>>>> duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the
>>>>>> standard ICANN processes for developing policy --
>>>>>> if not render them useless altogether. Which in
>>>>>> turn highlights my earlier comment that this
>>>>>> side-show effort from ICANN runs counter to the
>>>>>> bottom up / standard ICANN processes for
>>>>>> developing policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe it's just me making a mountain out of a
>>>>>> molehill, but Stephanie echoing these concerns on
>>>>>> the last call encouraged me to reach out to my
>>>>>> fellow WG members to see if others share the
>>>>>> concern and wanted to act on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Others?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>>>>>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Sullivan
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:09 AM
>>>>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] ICANN
>>>>>> Meetings/Conversations with Data Protection and
>>>>>> Privacy Commissioners
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 02:51:44PM +0000, Vayra,
>>>>>> Fabricio (Perkins Coie) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > I couldn’t agree more with Stephanie and find
>>>>>> it incredible that ICANN, despite our ongoing
>>>>>> efforts and the plethora of published community
>>>>>> concerns, are continuing with the approach of
>>>>>> rushing to discussions with Data Protection and
>>>>>> Privacy Commissioners “half-cocked.†Putting
>>>>>> aside the apparent widely shared view that this
>>>>>> approach is misinformed and dangerous, it’s
>>>>>> simply redundant of and does not take advantage
>>>>>> of our work within this PDP process -- one could
>>>>>> even say that it runs counter to the bottom up
>>>>>> and community led initiative on RDS/WHOIS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't understand what the problem is supposed
>>>>>> to be. We are a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> duly-constituted PDP WG that is following the
>>>>>> standard ICANN processes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for developing policy. If other parts of ICANN
>>>>>> want to talk to data
>>>>>>
>>>>>> protection and privacy commissioners, or
>>>>>> activists in favour of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> publishing all personal data available in the
>>>>>> universe, or privacy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> activists who think the DNS should be closed in
>>>>>> favour of onion
>>>>>>
>>>>>> routing, or the committee of the Present King of
>>>>>> France and the Easter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bunny, why should we care? In the event (for
>>>>>> which I have diminshing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hope) that we publish a report that is actionable
>>>>>> by the GNSO, the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ordinary ICANN policy mechanisms will grind
>>>>>> forward no matter what
>>>>>>
>>>>>> meetings people have had.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can best contribute to that end, in my
>>>>>> opinion, by focussing on
>>>>>>
>>>>>> getting done the work that we are supposed to be
>>>>>> doing, rather than
>>>>>>
>>>>>> worrying about all the other things other people
>>>>>> might be doing. By
>>>>>>
>>>>>> concentrating on this and making some progress,
>>>>>> we might even reduce
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the temptation of others to second guess this
>>>>>> process. At the rate we
>>>>>>
>>>>>> are currently moving, we appear to be destined to
>>>>>> deliver something
>>>>>>
>>>>>> right after heat death of the universe, and I
>>>>>> suggest that that pace
>>>>>>
>>>>>> is partly because there is no issue on which
>>>>>> people are willing to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> focus, come to a clear conclusion, and then let
>>>>>> that conclusion stand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I therefore urge that we focus on our task and
>>>>>> not make our job harder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> than it already is by attending to outside
>>>>>> distractions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew Sullivan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
>>>>>> <mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
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--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
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Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
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