[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] @EXT: RE: IMPORTANT: Invitation for Poll from 9 January Meeting
Volker Greimann
vgreimann at key-systems.net
Tue Jan 16 12:37:06 UTC 2018
Ultimately it is about more than that. It is also about allowing
contracted parties to operate in a manner that does not violate their
legal obligations. The needs of the DNS ecosystem and the needs of legal
compliance to applicable laws must be married in a manner thatneither is
impacted unduly.
Volker
Am 16.01.2018 um 13:31 schrieb Dotzero:
> +1 to what Greg wrote. This is about the DNS ecosystem.
>
> Michael Hammer
>
> On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 11:38 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
> <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I apologize for not voting in the recent poll. If I had, I would
> have voted the same way as Gregory Mounier did, with essentially
> the same underlying thoughts. I note Nathalie's suggestion, but I
> agree with John that we haven't even reached that point yet -- we
> first need to decide whether the purpose is legitimate or not ,
> and then (if it is legitimate) whether it is primary or secondary.
>
> There is a fundamental concept that I think is getting lost here
> -- RDS/Whois does not exist to serve the registrar/registrant
> relationship, it (they?) exists to serve the needs of the DNS
> ecosystem, which by definition includes law enforcement,
> anti-abuse, and anti-IP-infringement activity, as well as actual
> and potential transferees. The RDS should be viewed as a
> fundamental part of the system and processes that keep the DNS
> working (not just technically, but in terms of security, trust,
> and the free movement of domain names).
>
> Greg
>
> On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 6:02 PM, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>
> If its not a legitimate purpose, then its not a secondary
> purpose either. The language of the purposed agreement makes
> no accommodation for such a compromise even IF it were
> acceptable and its not.
>
> --
> John Bambenek
>
> On Jan 15, 2018, at 15:38, nathalie coupet via gnso-rds-pdp-wg
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gregory,
>>
>> I was expecting this objection be raised by law enforcement.
>> But, in a spirit of compromise, let's remember a resolution a
>> member made earlier about the implementation of GDPR: we were
>> going to distinguish between primary purpose and secondary
>> purpose (those not directly based on the contract between the
>> registrant and the registrar) and beef up 'secondary
>> purposes'. While this might seem unnatural, it allows us to
>> apply the GDPR's distinction while preserving the use of
>> WHOIS for law enforcement and abuse mitigation people.
>> This is important when submitting the WG's and ultimately
>> ICANN's rationale to the DPA's review: let's not increase the
>> attack surface. We can make sure that despite this use not
>> being granted full legitimate status for collection, there
>> will be enough data available for this use by allowing
>> additional collection, if need be.
>> The fact that a purpose is direct or indirect based on the
>> contract between the reigstrant and the registrar - the
>> initial consent of the registrant being the cirteria for
>> determining which purpose is primary (a.k.a 'legitimate') and
>> which one is not (i.e 'secondary') - could really alleviate
>> our quest for a compromise and still protect ICANN and
>> registrars.
>> I fear we'll still be here discussing this until we all turn
>> blue and still not get anywhere. I'm sure no one in the group
>> believes your work is less important, and we'll protect your
>> access to information as much as we can.
>> We just need to create this little artifice to protect
>> registrars and ICANN, so DPA's wont breathe down our necks.
>>
>> Why not give it a try?
>> Nathalie
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 15, 2018 8:30 AM, "Mounier, Grégory"
>> <gregory.mounier at europol.europa.eu
>> <mailto:gregory.mounier at europol.europa.eu>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>> I will not be able to join the call tomorrow so I thought
>> that I should drop an email to the list to explain why I
>> voted against the proposed possible WG Agreement according to
>> which “/Criminal Activity/DNS Abuse – Investigation is NOT a
>> legitimate purpose for requiring collection of registration
>> data, but maybe a legitimate purpose of using some data
>> collected for other purposes/.”
>> I think that there are a number of rationales/grounds -
>> including in ICANN’s Bylaws - to argue that in fact,
>> investigating criminal activity and DNS Abuse *IS* a
>> legitimate purpose for requiring the collection of
>> registration data.
>> Some of these rationales have been mentioned during the
>> discussion on the mailing list and during the call on 9^th
>> January. Unfortunately, I think that the proposed possible WG
>> agreement does not take into consideration these rationales.
>> I specifically disagree with the assumption that we should
>> make a distinction between 1) the purpose of collecting the
>> data and 2) the purpose for using the data collected for
>> other purposes (manage domain registrations).
>> The reason why I disagree with making this distinction is
>> that it leads to artificially reduce the importance of a
>> valid and legitimate purpose of the WHOIS system,
>> acknowledged by ICANN Bylaws: addressing malicious abuse of
>> the DNS and providing a framework to address appropriate law
>> enforcement needs. (ICANN’s mandate is to “ensure the stable
>> and secure operation of the internet’s unique identifier
>> systems”^^[1]
>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftn1> +
>> WHOIS data is essential for “the legitimate needs of law
>> enforcement” and for “promoting consumer trust.”^^[2]
>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftn2> ). In
>> its document on the three compliance models issued last
>> Friday^^[3]
>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftn3>,
>> ICANN has explicitly included: addressing the needs of law
>> enforcement, investigation of cybercrime and DNS abuse as
>> legitimate purposes of the WHOIS system.
>> If one of the purpose of the WHOIS system is to support a
>> framework to address issues involving domain name
>> registrations, including investigation of cybercrime and DNS
>> abuse, it can be argued that investigating criminal activity
>> and DNS abuse IS a legitimate purpose for requiring the
>> collection of registration data. Likewise, I think that
>> requiring collection of registration data to prevent crime is
>> NOT beyond ICANN's mandate because this data is essential for
>> ICANN to fulfil its mandate.
>> I have attached a list of relevant references supporting this
>> point of view taken from ICANN’s Bylaws and the GDPR.
>> I hope that you’ll find this contribution helpful and I’m
>> looking forward to reading the transcript of the next call J.
>> Best,
>> Greg
>> Gregory Mounier
>> Europol
>> European Cybercrime Centre
>> +31 6 55782743 <tel:+31%206%2055782743>
>> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
>> *Sent:* 12 January 2018 15:21
>> *To:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> *Subject:* [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] FW: IMPORTANT: Invitation for
>> Poll from 9 January Meeting
>> *Importance:* High
>> The response to this week’s poll is particularly low so I
>> strongly encourage more members to respond so that we have
>> enough data to help us in our meeting next week. Thanks to
>> those who have already responded.
>> Chuck
>> *From:*gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of
>> *Marika Konings
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 10, 2018 7:27 AM
>> *To:* gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> *Subject:* [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] IMPORTANT: Invitation for Poll
>> from 9 January Meeting
>> Dear all,
>> In follow-up to this week’s WG meeting, *all RDS PDP WG
>> Members* are encouraged to participate in the following poll:
>> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/VM6S8YK
>> <https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/VM6S8YK>
>> Responses should be submitted through the above URL. For
>> offline reference, a PDF of poll questions can also be found at:
>> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/74580034/Poll-from-9January-Call.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1515544361000&api=v2
>> <https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/74580034/Poll-from-9January-Call.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1515544361000&api=v2>
>> *This poll will close at COB Saturday 13 January. *
>> Please note that you _must be a WG Member_ to participate in
>> polls. If you are a WG Observer wishing to participate in
>> polls, you must first contact gnso-secs at icann.org
>> <mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org> to upgrade to WG Member.
>> Best regards,
>> Marika
>> */Marika Konings/*
>> /Vice President, Policy Development Support – GNSO, Internet
>> Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) /
>> /Email: //marika.konings at icann.org/
>> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>//
>> //
>> /Follow the GNSO via Twitter @ICANN_GNSO/
>> /Find out more about the GNSO by taking our //interactive
>> courses/ <http://learn.icann.org/courses/gnso>/ and visiting
>> the //GNSO Newcomer pages/
>> <http://gnso.icann.org/sites/gnso.icann.org/files/gnso/presentations/policy-efforts.htm#newcomers>/.
>> /
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> [1]
>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftnref1>ICANN
>> Bylaws Article One, Section 1.1, Mission.
>> [2]
>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftnref2>ICANN
>> Bylaws, Registration Directory Services Review, §4.6(e).
>> [3]
>> <https://mail.yahoo.com/?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma#_ftnref3>https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/interim-models-gdpr-compliance-12jan18-en.pdf
>> <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/interim-models-gdpr-compliance-12jan18-en.pdf>
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