[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards

Paul Keating Paul at law.es
Mon Mar 12 12:05:21 UTC 2018 

Volker,

You say:

> "These details belong on the websites, as is provided in the laws in Europe
> and other jurisdictions. There is no need to duplicate this in whois."


Why not?  If the local law requires publication of owner data on the website
what possible objection can one have to also placing it in a centralized
database. ? 


You ask for a simple methodology.  Easy.  Make the registrant self ­declare.
They must state affirmatively that they use the domain name for personal
purposes and not for commercial purposes.  They must do this each year just
as they do now with accuracy inquiries.

In addition, there are other means available able as well such as:

VAT Number appearing in the payment stream ­ signifies commercial use.
Corporate indicator in the name (e.g. SL, SA, GmbH, etc)  on the payor ­
signifies commercial use.


If you have objections to using the above asa means of accomplishing the
result please let me know.

Paul

From:  gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of
"benny at nordreg.se" <benny at nordreg.se>
Date:  Monday, March 12, 2018 at 8:11 AM
To:  Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com>
Cc:  "gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject:  Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards

> And there are examples where they have had to back of after complaints so it¹s
> not a black and white thing.
> 
> Blame autocorrect for any strange answers
> 
> On 11 Mar 2018, at 20:33, Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com> wrote:
> 
>> Nominet (U.K.) figured out how to discriminate between commercial and
>> noncommercial.  For years, .U.K. policy has been that if a domain is used for
>> commercial purposes the registrant does not have the right to opt-out of
>> having contact data published in WHOIS.  Seems to have worked pretty well.
>>  
>> https://registrars.nominet.uk/namespace/uk/registration-and-domain-management
>> /query-tools/whois/opt-out
>>  
>> Just saying there¹s a realistic, real-world implementation of that kind of
>> policy.
>>  
>> 
>> --Greg
>>  
>> 
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> On Behalf Of
>> Stephanie Perrin
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 3:24 PM
>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards
>>  
>> +1
>> 
>> Stephanie
>> 
>> On 2018-03-11 15:08, Steve Crocker wrote:
>>> 
>>> Domain names and web sites are not the same.  I think you're suggesting that
>>> ICANN would need to know which domain names have web sites associated with
>>> them and then which of those accept payments in some form.  This is digging
>>> pretty deeply into content, which is precisely what ICANN does not and must
>>> not do. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:06 PM, sivasubramanian muthusamy
>>> <6.internet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 11, 2018 1:01 PM, "John Bambenek" <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Simple. You ask them. ³Is this domain owned by an individual for
>>>>> non-commercial purposes?²
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Another way is make a distinction is to separate all websites that have a
>>>> payment gateway / that accept payments in some form.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> If we find domains engaged in commerce registered as personal and
>>>>> non-commercial, then we send a complaint. Sure, we gotta define commercial
>>>>> but surely that is not hard. We use whatever taxing authority for the
>>>>> jurisdiction says.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> 
>>>>> John Bambenek
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 10:24, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please provide a workable, reasonable method of identifying the domain
>>>>>> names used in commercial manner amongst the existing hundreds of million
>>>>>> registered domains. Please also identify how this determination can be
>>>>>> updated automatically once the use of a domain name changes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The fact is that commercial use is content. ICANN does not deal with
>>>>>> content except for very small and specific areas. ICANN and registrars
>>>>>> have no relationship with the content that is published under a domain
>>>>>> name. We certainly have no control over specific uses.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> These details belong on the websites, as is provided in the laws in
>>>>>> Europe and other jurisdictions. There is no need to duplicate this in
>>>>>> whois.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Volker
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 9. Mar 2018, at 07:49, sivasubramanian muthusamy
>>>>>>> <6.internet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Private persons (including private persons in a public career or a
>>>>>>> career of public exposure) need privacy. Why is this notion extended to
>>>>>>> protect online commercial entities of varying ethical standards? Does
>>>>>>> Yourairlinereservations.onlinecommerce have a right to privacy of its
>>>>>>> Registrant data?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Their customers don't look for contact information from RDS, but in the
>>>>>>> entity's commercial web site, but the information is not there. Many
>>>>>>> online entities operate from behind layers of veil that separate them
>>>>>>> from customers and enable them to carry on their commercial activity
>>>>>>> with minimal or non-existent accountability.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yourairlinereservations.onlinecommerce sells millions of air tickets but
>>>>>>> does not seem to have a building somewhere, and/or does not have an
>>>>>>> employee with a name. Yourairlinereservations.onlinecommerce takes your
>>>>>>> money, takes your information without disclosing any of its own, and
>>>>>>> does not have a phone number or answer email messages (operates through
>>>>>>> call centers, answers email messages by templates) when you are stranded
>>>>>>> Midway with a ticket that doesn't work. Yourcasino takes your credit
>>>>>>> card number, yourpharmacy takes your money and medical data, yourholiday
>>>>>>> owns your passport, and all these entities don't have an email address,
>>>>>>> phone number or a building with a person.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Could we do away with this notion of (Registrant)data privacy where it
>>>>>>> concerns an online entity that carries out commercial monetary
>>>>>>> transactions online? That would require us to discriminate between
>>>>>>> private persons and e-commerce entities, which would be a complex
>>>>>>> process - agreed. Nevertheless, could we think about this?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sivasubramanian M
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmai
>>>>>> l&source=g> 
>>>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmai
>>>>>> l&source=g> 
>>>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
>>>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
>>>>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net>  / www.RRPproxy.net
>>>>>> <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>>>>>> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /
>>>>>> www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>>>>>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>>>>>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>>>>> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
>>>>>> us.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>>>> - legal department -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmai
>>>>>> l&source=g> 
>>>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmai
>>>>>> l&source=g> 
>>>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
>>>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
>>>>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net>  / www.RRPproxy.net
>>>>>> <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>>>>>> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /
>>>>>> www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay
>>>>>> updated:
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>>>>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>>>>>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>>>>> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu>
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>  
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>>>  
>>> 
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