[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards

Paul Keating Paul at law.es
Mon Mar 12 12:59:58 UTC 2018 

Very well.

From:  gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of
<consult at cgomes.com>
Date:  Monday, March 12, 2018 at 1:47 PM
To:  <benny at nordreg.se>, 'Greg Aaron' <gca at icginc.com>
Cc:  <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject:  Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards

> I am pretty sure that we will have to dig deeper into commercial v. personal
> registrations later in our work.  So let¹s remember this discussion for then
> and focus on purposes for now.
>  
> Again let me say that the discussion has been good.
>  
> Chuck
>  
> 
> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> On Behalf Of
> benny at nordreg.se
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 12:12 AM
> To: Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com>
> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards
>  
> And there are examples where they have had to back of after complaints so it¹s
> not a black and white thing.
> 
> Blame autocorrect for any strange answers
> 
> 
> On 11 Mar 2018, at 20:33, Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Nominet (U.K.) figured out how to discriminate between commercial and
>> noncommercial.  For years, .U.K. policy has been that if a domain is used for
>> commercial purposes the registrant does not have the right to opt-out of
>> having contact data published in WHOIS.  Seems to have worked pretty well.
>>  
>> https://registrars.nominet.uk/namespace/uk/registration-and-domain-management
>> /query-tools/whois/opt-out
>>  
>> Just saying there¹s a realistic, real-world implementation of that kind of
>> policy.
>>  
>> 
>> --Greg
>>  
>> 
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> On Behalf Of
>> Stephanie Perrin
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 3:24 PM
>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Discriminatory rds Data Privacy Standards
>>  
>> +1
>> 
>> Stephanie
>> 
>> On 2018-03-11 15:08, Steve Crocker wrote:
>>> 
>>> Domain names and web sites are not the same.  I think you're suggesting that
>>> ICANN would need to know which domain names have web sites associated with
>>> them and then which of those accept payments in some form.  This is digging
>>> pretty deeply into content, which is precisely what ICANN does not and must
>>> not do. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 3:06 PM, sivasubramanian muthusamy
>>> <6.internet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 11, 2018 1:01 PM, "John Bambenek" <jcb at bambenekconsulting.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Simple. You ask them. ³Is this domain owned by an individual for
>>>>> non-commercial purposes?²
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Another way is make a distinction is to separate all websites that have a
>>>> payment gateway / that accept payments in some form.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> If we find domains engaged in commerce registered as personal and
>>>>> non-commercial, then we send a complaint. Sure, we gotta define commercial
>>>>> but surely that is not hard. We use whatever taxing authority for the
>>>>> jurisdiction says.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> 
>>>>> John Bambenek
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 10:24, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please provide a workable, reasonable method of identifying the domain
>>>>>> names used in commercial manner amongst the existing hundreds of million
>>>>>> registered domains. Please also identify how this determination can be
>>>>>> updated automatically once the use of a domain name changes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The fact is that commercial use is content. ICANN does not deal with
>>>>>> content except for very small and specific areas. ICANN and registrars
>>>>>> have no relationship with the content that is published under a domain
>>>>>> name. We certainly have no control over specific uses.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> These details belong on the websites, as is provided in the laws in
>>>>>> Europe and other jurisdictions. There is no need to duplicate this in
>>>>>> whois.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Volker
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 9. Mar 2018, at 07:49, sivasubramanian muthusamy
>>>>>>> <6.internet at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Private persons (including private persons in a public career or a
>>>>>>> career of public exposure) need privacy. Why is this notion extended to
>>>>>>> protect online commercial entities of varying ethical standards? Does
>>>>>>> Yourairlinereservations.onlinecommerce have a right to privacy of its
>>>>>>> Registrant data?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Their customers don't look for contact information from RDS, but in the
>>>>>>> entity's commercial web site, but the information is not there. Many
>>>>>>> online entities operate from behind layers of veil that separate them
>>>>>>> from customers and enable them to carry on their commercial activity
>>>>>>> with minimal or non-existent accountability.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yourairlinereservations.onlinecommerce sells millions of air tickets but
>>>>>>> does not seem to have a building somewhere, and/or does not have an
>>>>>>> employee with a name. Yourairlinereservations.onlinecommerce takes your
>>>>>>> money, takes your information without disclosing any of its own, and
>>>>>>> does not have a phone number or answer email messages (operates through
>>>>>>> call centers, answers email messages by templates) when you are stranded
>>>>>>> Midway with a ticket that doesn't work. Yourcasino takes your credit
>>>>>>> card number, yourpharmacy takes your money and medical data, yourholiday
>>>>>>> owns your passport, and all these entities don't have an email address,
>>>>>>> phone number or a building with a person.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Could we do away with this notion of (Registrant)data privacy where it
>>>>>>> concerns an online entity that carries out commercial monetary
>>>>>>> transactions online? That would require us to discriminate between
>>>>>>> private persons and e-commerce entities, which would be a complex
>>>>>>> process - agreed. Nevertheless, could we think about this?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sivasubramanian M
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>>>>>>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
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>>>>>> l&source=g> 
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>>>>>> l&source=g> 
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>>>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
>>>>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net>  / www.RRPproxy.net
>>>>>> <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>>>>>> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>>>> - legal department -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmai
>>>>>> l&source=g> 
>>>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>>>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=Im+Oberen+Werk+1+66386+St.+Ingbert&entry=gmai
>>>>>> l&source=g> 
>>>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <tel:+49%206894%209396901>
>>>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <tel:+49%206894%209396851>
>>>>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net>  / www.RRPproxy.net
>>>>>> <http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>>>>>> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com>  /
>>>>>> www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>  
>>>> 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
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