<font color='black' size='2' face='arial'>
<div>+1 Stephanie, regarding each and all of your points of view.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Patrick Lenihan</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">---- Original Message ----<br>
From: Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca><br>
To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><br>
Sent: Thu, Feb 4, 2016 10:55 am<br>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Please participate - poll on RDS PDP WG leadership team characteristics<br>
<br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_1.2_098e6dfa-5b26-4ca2-8d2e-482d57008f88">
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I cannot speak for James, but I will repeat that I do object to
ICANN volunteers from other SGs playing a leadership role, even
wonderful contenders such as Holly! Given the somewhat tumultuous
discussions that have gone on at the CCWG over the past year, it
seems to me prudent that the GNSO lead its own processes.
Furthermore, the WHOIS debates over the past 15 years have amply
demonstrated the different economic and policy interests in the
data, and these interests tend to be sharply divided along
stakeholder groups. Ensuring a balance of those stakeholder groups
on the leadership team from the get-go will help diminish
perceptions of unfairness and lack of trust.<br>
<br>
That in no way diminishes the important role and contributions of
volunteers to this committee, and I would stress that there are
likely to be be working groups established in this (doubtless
multi-year effort) where people can contribute in a leader role.
However, this is undoubtedly going to be a fractious process and I
think it is reasonable to look for previous participation at ICANN,
not necessarily leadership of a pdp per se, but demonstrated ability
to remain neutral, understand procedure, and support staff who are
going to be doing a great deal of work for us. With great respect
to all volunteers, I don't think this is a role for those who have
not recently participated in at least some kind of working group at
ICANN. It is very important that we have a broad range of expertise
and talent represented here, but let us be clear about the various
roles we all will be playing. <br>
My original point, which James clarified far better than I had
originally expressed it, is that volunteers who are not used to
ICANN and its processes will not understand any of the political
questions embedded in the poll, meaning no disrespect to staff who
created that poll.<br>
<br>
If I may reiterate the point that Michele made, many of the SOIs of
people who have volunteered for this work need serious editing and
clarification. If staff could review the list and reach out to
those in question it would be appreciated. Our membership list for
NCUC is public, non-members are welcome to apply.<br>
And if I may respond to a point that Dr. Williams made: "I would
suggest that we leave it to the leadership group to decide who
“leads” it…all of us are capable of leading"<br>
1. We are discussing the process of how to select that leadership
group at the moment, once that group is determined, how they spell
one another off is of course up to them with group concensus,
providing procedures are duly followed (and I for one depend on
Marika to remind us of procedures on a regular basis)<br>
2. With great respect, we are not all equal in our leadership
ability and experience. This is why several of us are insisting on
demonstrated ability to perform a neutral, balanced role in an ICANN
setting. I think it is quite challenging. For those who are new to
ICANN, following this group for a year or so every week will give
you a rich and varied experience which will doubtless be useful in
future efforts. <br>
I am sorry to go on at such length, but I wanted to dispel any
impression I had given that I was intending this to be an insider
process....far from it, I am very keen on recruiting (for instance)
some individuals who have knowledge of data protection and human
rights law who have rarely in the past participated at ICANN,
resulting in unfortunate policies that violate national law.
However, such new individuals/volunteers with varied expertise are,
regardless of past leadership roles, perhaps not the best choices
for the leadership team. I speak as a newbie with only 3 years of
working experience at ICANN, who has now participated in at least 6
working groups. Doing a good job here, in my view, requires a lot
of learning and bandwidth.<br>
Kind regards, <br>
Stephanie Perrin<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-02-04 6:07, Holly Raiche wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="about:blank">
Point of clarification James
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think we all put our hands together when Chuck put his hand
up. He is the obvious Chair of this PDP from my perspective
(and, I believe, a large number of hoers) - with his own stated
qualification that it is for Phase one. But we also all agreed
that he would need help - Vice-chairs. Are you objecting to
other ICANN folk (or others with loads of ICANN experience) in
those positions as well?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Holly<br>
<div>
<div>On 4 Feb 2016, at 6:25 pm, James Gannon <<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote>
<div dir="auto">
<div>Hi Holly,</div>
<div>Yes apologies for the typo and yes as I said later in
the post I do object to GNSO PDPs being led by non-GNSO
members. This is my own personal opinion but given the
current discussions I thought I should be clear in my
position.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-jg<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br>
On 4 Feb 2016, at 06:59, Holly Raiche <<a href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net" target="_blank">h.raiche@internode.on.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>Hi James
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just a question about your first sentence -
probably caused by what I think is a misspelling of
‘linking’. Are you seriously objecting to
leadership roles for people who are not members of
the GNSO?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just checking</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Holly<br>
<div>
<div>On 4 Feb 2016, at 5:15 pm, James Gannon <<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; -ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div>
<div>
<div>I agree with your point in principle
Sana, but in reality I think a couple of
us are concerned that the poll is being
used for some strange questions that are
more political in nature such as the
question on leadership inkling people
from outside of the GNSO. The results of
this first poll will be used to
determine eligibility for leadership
positions based on a set of criteria
that will be formed from the poll. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Given the extremely complex political
aspects of WHOIS and its interrelations
with so many areas of the community it
may be extremely difficult for a
newcomer to the entire PDP process and
in particular to WHOIS/RDS to make a
fully educated decision on some of the
questions posed. So its not so much that
experience and understanding of the
landscape is necessary to be polled, but
that to make a fully informed decision
will take longer than the 2 weeks that
the PDP has been running so far.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Take for example the issues that some
of us have noticed with peoples SOI’s,
there are people wit incorrect
information and affiliations, people
claiming to be part of constituencies
that they are not and people listing
themselves as independent when they are
known to have affiliations and sometimes
business relationships with parties with
commercial and legal interests at stake
in the RDS discussions, until we get the
basics such as these things correct its
hard to take an informed decision on the
need or want to take an independent
member of the working group into a
leadership role that is not GNSO
affiliated. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also there is a principle involved
here, I firmly and strongly believe that
the GNSO operates its membership in an
open and inclusive manner, where almost
everyone can find a home for themselves
if they wish to participate in the
policy development process. And even if
one feels the need to be independent we
offer open membership to non-affiliated
persons and they are considered fully
during all dissuasions and decision
making efforts. However at the core of
the PDP is the fact that it is the GNSOs
mission to create gTLD policy through
its PDP, and that that role sits firmly
with the GNSO not with the other ACs and
Sos.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am likely going to open myself up
to some backlash here but I am of the
opinion that we cannot allow GNSO policy
development to be led by other parts of
the ICANN ecosphere, the role of the
GNSO is diluted when we do so and
results in a GNSO that is not performing
the self-control that it needs to do in
order to fulfil its own mission. In
particular when it comes to AC’s
participating in leadership roles on a
PDP like this I feel that it in some way
violates the system of checks and
balances that ICANN is formed on, AC’s
such as ALAC an the GAC have the
opportunity to provide advice to the
board when the results of GNSO PDPs come
for consideration by the ICANN board, to
wish to lead those same PDPs I feel
takes two bites from the apple, and
given that ALAC and At-Large members are
free to participate in the policy
development process as decisional
members I think that adding leadership
roles to that dynamic complicates things
massively.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bit of a wall of text but </div>
<div>TL;DR: Its the GNSOs role in ICANN to
produce policy for gTLDs therefore this
needs to be a GNSO led process with open
and collaborative membership.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-jg</div>
<div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
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<span style="font-weight: bold;">From: </span><<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
on behalf of Sana Ali <<a href="mailto:sana.ali2030@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sana.ali2030@gmail.com" target="_blank">sana.ali2030@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Date: </span>Thursday
4 February 2016 at 1:33 a.m.<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">To: </span>Jennifer
Gore Standiford <<a href="mailto:JStandiford@web.com" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:JStandiford@web.com" target="_blank">JStandiford@web.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject: </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Please participate -
poll on RDS PDP WG leadership team
characteristics<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="-ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
Dear Stephanie,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I’ll respectfully disagree
with you here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Experience should
certainly be a matter of importance
when determining who should be in
leadership roles, but to suggest it
should also be required for something
as simple as voting on who should be
in those roles, based on pretty
straightforward and comprehensible
principles, I find a bit dangerous. It
inhibits participation based on…prior
participation, which can become a
slippery slope.</div>
<div><br>
<div>And from following the
discussion, as a newcomer, I have at
least picked up on the fact that
even more experienced members of
this group seem in no way unanimous
on what should be the key
characteristics of the team.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>My two cents (with
full disclosure that these are
indeed rather newly-minted
pennies)</div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="-ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">
<div>Sana Ali</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="mailto:sana.ali2030@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sana.ali2030@gmail.com" target="_blank">sana.ali2030@gmail.com</a></div>
<div><a href="https://ca.linkedin.com/in/sanaali2030" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ca.linkedin.com/in/sanaali2030" target="_blank">https://ca.linkedin.com/in/sanaali2030</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; -ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote>
<div>On Feb 3, 2016, at
8:00 PM, Jennifer Gore Standiford
<<a href="mailto:JStandiford@web.com" target="_blank">JStandiford@web.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir="auto">
<div>Agreed. +1</div>
<div><br>
On Feb 3, 2016, at 7:50 PM,
Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>There is a
fundamental problem here, in
my view. There are a great
many members of the group
who are not accustomed to
ICANN and its SGs. We are
therefore asking them to
vote on something with which
they have no/little
experience. Not sure it is
going to prove to be a
useful survey.<br>
Stephanie Perrin<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
2016-02-02 15:42, Marika
Konings wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="about:blank">
<div>Dear All,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As
discussed, staff has
created a poll to
solicit the WG’s input
on the key
characteristics of the
RDS PDP WG Leadership
Team which we hope will
help inform the the WG’s
deliberations on this
topic during next week’s
meeting. This poll will
be followed by a second
poll later this week
which will allow WG
members to indicate
which candidates they
would like to endorse
for the leadership team.
To participate in the
poll, please go to <a href="https://s.zoomerang.com/r/RDSPDPWGleadership" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://s.zoomerang.com/r/RDSPDPWGleadership" target="_blank">https://s.zoomerang.com/r/RDSPDPWGleadership</a>.
If you have difficulties
accessing this page
and/or completing the
poll, please contact me
off-list.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please note
that this poll is for WG
members only. If you are
an observer and want to
become a member of the
WG, please contact the
GNSO secretariat at
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" target="_blank"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-secs@icann.org</a>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best
regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marika</div>
<br>
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