<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466081903573_86024"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466081903573_87073">Couldn't we follow a few leads at the same time, and choose to merge them at a later time, if and when necessary? We can have a string on requirements, another on purposes and let both discussions progress until these two strings are at a junction where they can safely merge under one umbrella. </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466081903573_86024"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466081903573_87075"> </span></div><div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466081903573_86047"> </div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1466081903573_86045">Nathalie Coupet </div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 10:11 AM, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv8800864776"><div>
<div><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I will repeat what I
have said before. Discussing "requirements" before purpose
sets up business requirements before we have defined the
business. DIscussing accuracy and access before we have
determined requirements merely throws the cement hardener into
the mix. Why on earth discuss accuracy requirements for data
elements that are on someone's wish list unless the costing
(and who will pay) is also defined? Part of discussing original
purpose of the collection, use and disclosure of registration
data is to determine, in 2016 and for the foreseeable future,
why we collect information, what is legally permissible to
collect, and who will pay for that collection (in one form or
another).</font></font></div>
<div><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">as I have said before,
I fully understand that tackling this problem is difficult,
and I understand the rationale for going with all the
"requirements" first. I do think getting further refinement
will sway all of us in certain directions....towards accepting
the assumptions that all this data collection is necessary and
desirable. It will also tire out those of us who have another
life, but perhaps that is a desired outcome of the majority.</font></font></div>
<div><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Apologies for missing
the call yesterday, I was travelling and unable to accept the
callout. Comments will be coming shortly.<br clear="none">
</font></font></div>
<div><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">SP</font></font><br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv8800864776yqt2616415881" id="yiv8800864776yqt65916"><div class="yiv8800864776moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-06-16 5:59, Victoria Sheckler
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
</blockquote></div></div><div class="yiv8800864776yqt2616415881" id="yiv8800864776yqt53627"><style>#yiv8800864776 #yiv8800864776 --
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<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">+1</span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv8800864776moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv8800864776moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Vayra, Fabricio (Perkins Coie)<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:50 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Gomes, Chuck <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv8800864776moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com"><cgomes@verisign.com></a>;
Ayden Férdeline <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv8800864776moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com"><icann@ferdeline.com></a>; Susan
Kawaguchi <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv8800864776moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:susank@fb.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:susank@fb.com"><susank@fb.com></a><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv8800864776moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] RDS 5 Charter
questions</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">I
agree with Susan. There’s a reason the charter was written
as is and to change it unwinds the charter without the
benefit of the thoughtful work and deliberations that went
into it. Moreover, leaving access and accuracy out of the
discussion until the end has us making decisions in a
vacuum. And, finally, I’m not sure how you divorce
Users/Purposes, Privacy, and Data elements from Access and
Accuracy, as the latter two are a constant and vital
reference within all documents I’ve reviewed on the former
three … so to separate these two topics out until later just
sets us up for unnecessary grid-lock when we have to revisit
the first three topics through the interrelated latter two
topics of Access and Accuracy. </span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Thanks,</span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Fabricio
Vayra</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span></b></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;">PARTNER</span></b></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">700
Thirteenth Street, N.W. Suite 600</span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">Washington,
DC 20005-3960</span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">D.
+1.202.654.6255</span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">F.
+1.202.654.9678</span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">E.
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:FVayra@perkinscoie.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:FVayra@perkinscoie.com"><span style="">FVayra@perkinscoie.com</span></a></span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;"><img id="yiv8800864776Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:ofI6rnhstziqSOZ6Yei0" alt="cid:image001.jpg@01D054C5.01001EE0" height="19" border="0" width="130"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv8800864776moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv8800864776moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gomes, Chuck<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 15, 2016 9:21 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Ayden Férdeline; Susan Kawaguchi<br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv8800864776moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] RDS 5 Charter
questions<br clear="none">
<b>Importance:</b> High</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Thanks
for continuing the discussion on the approach to reaching
consensus. I strongly encourage others to express your
opinion on that along with your rationale: 1) Should we
leave our work plan as is or 2) should we change it from two
issue reports to three issue reports with the first one
following deliberation on the user/purpose, privacy/data
protection and data element questions?</span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">I
appreciate the time you took to explain your position but
note that much of what you said gets into what we will
discuss in our future deliberations so I ask everyone to not
go there yet but instead focus on commenting on the approach
to reaching consensus. Our goal is to finalize that
approach in our meeting next week.</span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Chuck</span></div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">
Ayden Férdeline [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com"><span style="">mailto:icann@ferdeline.com</span></a>]
<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 15, 2016 6:54 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Susan Kawaguchi<br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><span style="">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a>;
Gomes, Chuck<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] RDS 5 Charter
questions</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"> </div>
<table class="yiv8800864776MsoNormalTable" style="width:100.0%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" valign="top" style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;">
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<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Hi
Susan,</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Thanks
for sharing these reflections. I
understand the desire not to complicate
this task. As someone who is new to the
ICANN community and its approach to
policy-making – and, also, someone who is
an advocate of privacy – it would seem to
me that all the costs and burdens
associated with rallying against an
open-access Registration Directory Service
have been put on some stakeholders, while
proponents of the status quo profit from
the lack of consensus or inertia on a
different path forward. I say this not to
demonise any views, but to clarify that I
do indeed share your perspective that we
don’t want to be permanently gridlocked
here.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">This
is actually why my preference would be to
go down the path that was suggested on our
call yesterday – from what I recall, it
would mean three opportunities for public
comment, and a mandate to focus our
energies on understanding Users/Purposes,
Privacy, and Data Elements before we
consider whether or not gated access is
necessary or whether or not records should
be accurate. It seems a little premature
to me to consider the latter points when
we have not yet established if there is a
basis for collecting registration data in
the first place. I share your point,
though, that we should be distinguishing
between individuals and commercial
entities – which is not to presuppose that
there ultimately will be a need for
variations in treatment if the RDS is
warranted.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">We
can make our work easier, however. If we
decide upon a standard by which to assess
whether or not the RDS complies with, say,
data privacy laws, we might have a more
straightforward exercise ahead. And on
that point I would like to note that just
because the Internet originated in the US
and its governance framework has been
historically dominated by US-based actors
does not mean we should by default turn to
US law for contextual protections or
principles. I would like to respectfully
suggest that European instruments such as
the European Convention on Human Rights,
standards set by the European Union Data
Protection Directive, and Convention 108
of the Council of Europe might be helpful
starting points. These are not obscure
laws or conventions which apply to no one:
the EU population is over 500 million
people, far greater than that of the US.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">I
am not a lawyer and I do not come at this
topic with the same institutional
knowledge that others do have. I do not
know all the details or decisions that
have led us to this point where, it would
seem, the (political) cost to move away
from the current default is so very high.
I say this to be clear, from the onset,
that I might well be misinformed or wrong
about how we move forward in this working
group. However, it is my view that just
because the Internet is by nature
cross-border does not mean that it should
be treated as a self-governing realm
beyond the reach of national laws. WHOIS
today, to me, seems to subvert and/or
undermine domestic norms and institutions
in many territories worldwide. I don’t
want to get into the question of
sovereignty online, but it would be
helpful to at least establish whether or
not we believe ICANN should mandate
through its contracts with registrars that
they comply with local legal regulations,
or whether we instead believe that market
forces should be driving fundamental
decisions about the nature of the
Internet.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">You
can probably guess my position here, but
I’d like to think we can reach some common
ground. What are we more concerned about –
the rights of the data subject and
controller, or the rights of those who
wish to monetise it? To come up with, like
we have, a list of something like 780
possible requirements for the RDS strikes
me as a recipe for disaster. It seems
inevitable that we will accidentally
impose huge costs on some stakeholder
groups – the unintended consequence of
trying to achieve some short-term policy
goal not to do with any functional
imperative of the Internet itself, but to
meet someone’s obscure interest. That’s
why I want to hammer down on what data is
being collected, why it is being used, and
what are the implications for privacy
before we proceed any further.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Just
my $0.02.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">-
Ayden</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div><span style=""> </span></div>
<div>
<div><span style=""> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">On
Tue, Jun 14, 2016 10:51 PM, Susan
Kawaguchi
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:susank@fb.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:susank@fb.com">susank@fb.com</a>
wrote:</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Hello
All, </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">I
have been thinking about the RDS
discussion from this morning’s
meeting and wanted to clarify my
personal position (not as a vice
chair of the WG) I think we will
complicate our task if we initially
limit the discussion to three of
the charter questions relating to
users/purposes, privacy and data
elements. Much thought went into
drafting the charter and
brainstorming how a WG should
approach deliberations. </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Users/Purposes</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Privacy</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Data
elements</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Access</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Accuracy</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">All
of the above are very interrelated
and I can’t imagine that we can
sufficiently discuss one or two
without the others. </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">One
other issue that comes to mind is
that we must keep in mind PII data
but we also have to be wary of
creating requirements that convey
data protection rights of
individuals to commercial entities.
For each of the topics above we
need to address how it would affect
an individual or a commercial
entity. </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">I
think we should move forward with
the original plan according to the
Charter and discuss all 5 issues in
the first pass. </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Susan
Kawaguchi</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Domain
Name Manager </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Facebook
Legal Dept. </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8800864776MsoNormal"><span style="">Ayden
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