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            <div>Thanks for sharing this, Nick.</div><div><br></div><blockquote style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px;"><div>Use case: Governments use the WHOIS to investigate with 'crimes in action', and the current level of access enables them to mitigate threats in a timely manner.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Governments have ample mechanisms through which they can obtain information about a domain name registrant. I would put forward that sensitive, personally-identifiable information should only be released to State actors as a result of a judicial order where due process has been followed.  </div><div><font><br></font></div><div>- Ayden</div><img align="left" width="0" height="0" style="border:0; width:0px; height:0px;" src="https://app.mixmax.com/api/track/v2/Xf5dr2v0NO2WhUOz5/i02bj5SZulGblRmclZGQu5WYjlmI/icmcv5ibuF2YpB0Z31CckBXLzRmct82cudmI/?sc=false" alt="">
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      On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 5:27 PM, Nick Shorey <span dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:nick.shorey@culture.gov.uk" target="_blank">nick.shorey@culture.gov.uk</a></span>
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        <div dir="ltr">Yep certainly wouldn't want to jump the gun Volker.<div><br></div><div>Use case: Governments use the WHOIS to investigate with 'crimes in action', and the current level of access enables them to mitigate threats in a timely manner.</div><div><br></div><div>=)</div><div><br></div><div>Nick</div></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr"><div><b><span></span><span></span>Nick Shorey BA(Hons) MSc.</b></div><div>Senior Policy Advisor | Global Internet Governance</div><div>Department for Culture, Media &amp; Sport</div><div>HM Government | United Kingdom</div><div><br></div><div>Email: <a href="mailto:nick.shorey@culture.gov.uk" target="_blank">nick.shorey@culture.gov.uk</a></div><div>Tel: +44 (0)7741 256 320</div><div>Skype: nick.shorey</div><div>Twitter: @nickshorey</div><div>LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/nicklinkedin" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/nicklinkedin</a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div>On 25 July 2016 at 12:45, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
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    <p>I think we are jumping the gun again. Let's rather focus on the
      use cases and how they should be structured. <br>
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    <div>Am 25.07.2016 um 12:59 schrieb Nick
      Shorey:<br>
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      <div dir="ltr">Thanks everyone for sharing these useful articles.
        Would love to meet Krebs some day.
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        <div>As Rod mentioned, WHOIS often being the first point of
          research in many LEA investigations, and though whilst it
          might not always be the ultimate 'smoking gun' piece of
          evidence presented in court, the importance of WHOIS data in
          the initial stages of an investigation must not be
          underplayed.</div>
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        <div>Another observation I'd make is that with things like
          malware, online pharmacies and threat to life scenarios where
          WHOIS data can be crucial, we're often dealing with what I
          call 'crime in action'. The quicker you can build a holistic
          understanding of the threat, the more impactive your action
          can be - and the fewer people that get harmed.</div>
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        <div>The current level of access to WHOIS definitely supports
          'timely' investigation which can make a huge difference in
          such cases, and as we get further down the track on this PDP,
          I think its important to note this element in our
          deliberations.</div>
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        <div>Keep up the great work.</div>
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        <div>Nick</div>
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                                                          <div><b><span></span><span></span>Nick
                                                          Shorey
                                                          BA(Hons) MSc.</b></div>
                                                          <div>Senior
                                                          Policy Advisor
                                                          | Global
                                                          Internet
                                                          Governance</div>
                                                          <div>Department
                                                          for Culture,
                                                          Media &amp;
                                                          Sport</div>
                                                          <div>HM
                                                          Government |
                                                          United Kingdom</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>Email: <a href="mailto:nick.shorey@culture.gov.uk" target="_blank">nick.shorey@culture.gov.uk</a></div>
                                                          <div>Tel: +44
                                                          (0)7741 256
                                                          320</div>
                                                          <div>Skype:
                                                          nick.shorey</div>
                                                          <div>Twitter:
                                                          @nickshorey</div>
                                                          <div>LinkedIn:
                                                          <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/nicklinkedin" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/nicklinkedin</a></div>
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        <div>On 21 July 2016 at 00:28, Greg Shatan <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
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              <div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">While we're at
                it, Krebs also covered a case that I worked on in its
                early stages:  <a href="http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/07/serial-swatter-stalker-and-doxer-mir-islam-gets-just-1-year-in-jail/" target="_blank">http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/07/serial-swatter-stalker-and-doxer-mir-islam-gets-just-1-year-in-jail/</a>. 
                One of my clients had sensitive information (a credit
                report, illegally acquired, along with social security
                number, bank account information, etc., etc.) exposed on
                a website run by Mir Islam; a number of other people had
                credit reports and other information posted.  Through a
                combination of Whois (both ccTLD and gTLD) and Zone File
                information and other available information, we were
                able to get the site taken offline, but not before
                significant distress and potential for damage occurred. 
                The site went back up (and quicklydown) several more
                times, as shadier and shadier web hosts were used.  The
                FBI and Secret Service quickly got involved, and further
                work shifted to them, thought we were kept informed (to
                the extent possible) of their activities in shutting
                this operation down.  I didn't realize until I read the
                Krebs article how much other tortious and criminal
                activity this person and his colleagues were involved
                in.</div>
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              <div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">During this case,
                I had to research the potential consequences of an adult
                changing their social security number (it's not easy,
                but it can be done).  The consequences are not pretty,
                because your credit history, medical history and a lot
                of other information is tied to your social security
                number.  When you change a social security number, none
                of that transfers over, so you have to go through a lot
                of steps to put your life back together.  Ultimately,
                the solution seemed worse than the problem, especially
                since we were able to get the site taken down so
                quickly.</div>
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              <div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
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                                        <p><span></span><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&amp;id=0B90h5wcghspFRXc1T05BaVZVbjg&amp;revid=0B90h5wcghspFUEtGZS9IQ1F4cXp3WTcrSnZFRjhwQjlCZTN3PQ"><br>
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                                        <p><b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#002e62">Gregory
                                              S. Shatan | Partner<br>
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                  <div>On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:35
                    PM, Terri Stumme <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:terri.stumme@legitscript.com" target="_blank">terri.stumme@legitscript.com</a>&gt;</span>
                    wrote:<br>
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                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">I
                          would like to weigh in here and recommend,
                          because we all have so much extra time, that
                          you take a few minutes to read the following
                          article  (there are many others) and Wikipedia
                          bio related to Paul LeRoux, specifically,
                          please read Section 3, RX Limited in the
                          Wikipedia bio. It is important to point out
                          that Paul LeRoux's company, ABSystems was an
                          ICANN accredited registrar. Not only was he
                          running one of the largest Internet pharmacy
                          networks, he was the SPAM king and responsible
                          for much (not all) of the Internet pharmacy
                          spam everyone has likely received at some
                          point in time. It is also important to point
                          out that -- there are others!</div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(<a href="https://news.vice.com/article/paul-e-roux-joseph-hunter-rambo-the-dea-meth-and-cocaine" target="_blank">https://news.vice.com/article/paul-e-roux-joseph-hunter-rambo-the-dea-meth-and-cocaine</a>)</div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Le_Roux" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Le_Roux</a>)</div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Background:
                          This DEA case began with the investigation of
                          LeRoux's online pharmacy business (I worked at
                          DEA for 16-1/2 years, ten of which I spent
                          working in the Internet pharmacy
                          investigations section). The RX Limited
                          network was comprised of approximately 25,000
                          domain names, and this investigation, as well
                          as all Internet pharmacy investigations, begin
                          with collecting WHOIS and DNS information for
                          the domain names. Typically there are several
                          individuals and organizations involved in the
                          operation of an online pharmacy network, and
                          typically there are hundreds of domain names
                          affiliated with the network. WHOIS information
                          is critical to the investigation, and is
                          utilized to map out the network and identify
                          domain name ownership. Even if bogus WHOIS
                          information is utilized, it is still pertinent
                          -- perhaps the same bogus information is given
                          for more than one domain name. We then know
                          that those domain names with the same bogus
                          information are likely part of the same
                          network.</div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Over
                          the years, there have been several requests
                          from ICANN and registrars for LE to provide
                          case examples. I cannot tell you the number of
                          times I wish I were able to talk about this
                          particular case. The reality is that talking
                          about ongoing investigations, and even certain
                          aspects of closed investigations is forbidden.
                          There is a trust factor that must be
                          considered here -- we are not making this
                          stuff up -- it's real, and there is very
                          dangerous criminal activity happening
                          facilitated via the Internet, and whatever we
                          need to do to curb this activity should be the
                          goal of any upstanding, moral, law-abiding
                          individual (organization).</div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">I
                          do not claim to have all the answers here, nor
                          how we get to where we need to be, but I
                          firmly believe that open, unrestricted access
                          to WHOIS information that includes no fewer
                          data points than what is currently available,
                          is absolutely critical.<br>
                        </div>
                        <div style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div><br>
                              <div>On Wed, Jul 20,
                                2016 at 12:04 AM, Mark Svancarek via
                                gnso-rds-pdp-wg <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>&gt;</span>
                                wrote:<br>
                                <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                  <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
                                    <div>
                                      <p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Here’s
                                          one that was used during a
                                          criminal investigation though
                                          it was found by
                                          non-law-enforcement people.</span></p>
                                      <p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><a href="http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/20/3672201/alleged-dylann-roof-racist-manifesto-revealed/" target="_blank">http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/20/3672201/alleged-dylann-roof-racist-manifesto-revealed/</a></span></p>
                                      <p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                                      <p><a name="m_-4347374077623813855_m_-5786202095474220245_m_-8159019314153622291_m_4762267710339249907__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></a></p>
                                      <span></span>
                                      <div>
                                        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                                          <p><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Rod
                                              Rasmussen [mailto:<a href="mailto:rrasmussen@infoblox.com" target="_blank">rrasmussen@infoblox.com</a>]
                                              <br>
                                              <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July
                                              19, 2016 5:25 PM<br>
                                              <b>To:</b> Mounier,
                                              Grégory &lt;<a href="mailto:gregory.mounier@europol.europa.eu" target="_blank">gregory.mounier@europol.europa.eu</a>&gt;<br>
                                              <b>Cc:</b> Chuck Gomes
                                              &lt;<a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>&gt;;
                                              Mark Svancarek &lt;<a href="mailto:marksv@microsoft.com" target="_blank">marksv@microsoft.com</a>&gt;;
                                              Andrew Sullivan &lt;<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>&gt;;
                                              <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                                              <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                              [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] @EXT
                                              WHOIS info and
                                              investigation</span></p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p> </p>
                                          <p>Krebs
                                            is always a great read -
                                            really knows his stuff
                                            technically and as a
                                            journalist.  If you liked
                                            this, check out his book
                                            Spam Nation for a whole
                                            history of this and some of
                                            the main actors behind it
                                            throughout most of the last
                                            ten years.</p>
                                          <div>
                                            <p> </p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p>This is
                                              a fairly typical OSINT
                                              (Open Source Intelligence)
                                              type of investigation. 
                                              You’d think criminal
                                              “masterminds” wouldn’t use
                                              horrible operational
                                              security practices like
                                              using their same personal
                                              information on social
                                              media accounts, malicious
                                              and personal domain
                                              registrations, embedded in
                                              malcode, or in e-mails. 
                                              Yet they do every day and
                                              this is a major source of
                                              cybersecurity
                                              professionals being able
                                              to track down all manner
                                              of undesirable Internet
                                              activities from services
                                              abuse to flat-out illegal
                                              acts in most if not all
                                              jurisdictions.</p>
                                            <div>
                                              <p> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p>A
                                                couple of additional
                                                things to note.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p>1)
                                                Law enforcement had
                                                nothing to do with this
                                                particular
                                                story/investigation. 
                                                This is true for most
                                                cybersecurity
                                                operational activity and
                                                investigations - it’s
                                                largely a private-sector
                                                affair with security
                                                companies of various
                                                flavors looking at the
                                                malware, spam,
                                                malvertizing, etc. that
                                                crosses their paths. 
                                                From that starting point
                                                they try to figure out
                                                things like what else is
                                                tied to it (so I can
                                                block or kill it), or
                                                “who’s doing this”, or
                                                “what are they really up
                                                to?”</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p>  </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p>2)
                                                There are a lot of
                                                “established” service
                                                providers around the
                                                world that have heavy
                                                levels of abuse on them
                                                over a very long time. 
                                                It is really hard at
                                                times to separate “bad
                                                guys” from “incompetent”
                                                or “uncaring&quot;
                                                operators.  Collection
                                                of data like this can
                                                lead to connections
                                                between various
                                                activities that can put
                                                a much better color on
                                                their hats.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p>3) To
                                                then bring charges that
                                                could actually affect a
                                                subject’s life though,
                                                any and all of this kind
                                                of research is merely a
                                                starting point that the
                                                police then use to
                                                inform a much more
                                                traditional
                                                investigation that
                                                involves formal records
                                                requests, court-ordered
                                                actions like search
                                                warrants or wiretaps,
                                                etc. so they can develop
                                                court admissible
                                                evidence. A whois query
                                                result is not evidence,
                                                and no one gets thrown
                                                in jail for having a
                                                dodgy domain registered
                                                in their name.</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p>Cheers,</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p>Rod</p>
                                              <div>
                                                <p> </p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p>On
                                                          Jul 19, 2016,
                                                          at 3:03 PM,
                                                          Mounier,
                                                          Grégory &lt;<a href="mailto:gregory.mounier@europol.europa.eu" target="_blank">gregory.mounier@europol.europa.eu</a>&gt;
                                                          wrote:</p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <p> </p>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">Dear
                                                          all,<span> </span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Here is a nice
                                                          example of how
                                                          WHOIS
                                                          information is
                                                          used to
                                                          investigate
                                                          unlawful
                                                          activities:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <a href="http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/07/carbanak-gang-tied-to-russian-security-firm/" target="_blank">http://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/07/carbanak-gang-tied-to-russian-security-firm/</a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Greg</span><strong><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"></span></strong></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></b></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">
                                                          <hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
                                                          </span></div>
                                                          <p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><span> </span>on
                                                          behalf of
                                                          Gomes, Chuck<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b><span> </span>18
                                                          July 2016
                                                          20:26:34<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b><span> </span>'Mark
                                                          Svancarek';
                                                          'Andrew
                                                          Sullivan';<span> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] An important technical consideration about nature of
                                                          the service
                                                          (was Re: The
                                                          overflowing
                                                          list )</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif"></span></p>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Helvetica&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks
                                                          Mark.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Chuck<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          -----Original
                                                          Message-----<br>
                                                          From: Mark
                                                          Svancarek [<a href="mailto:marksv@microsoft.com" target="_blank">mailto:marksv@microsoft.com</a>]<span> </span><br>
                                                          Sent: Monday,
                                                          July 18, 2016
                                                          1:40 PM<br>
                                                          To: Gomes,
                                                          Chuck; 'Andrew
                                                          Sullivan';<span> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                                                          Subject: RE:
                                                          [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
                                                          An important
                                                          technical
                                                          consideration
                                                          about nature
                                                          of the service
                                                          (was Re: The
                                                          overflowing
                                                          list )<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I'll take a
                                                          stab at it. <span> </span><br>
                                                          I've also
                                                          asked our
                                                          IP/Brand
                                                          people and
                                                          digital crimes
                                                          people to help
                                                          me document
                                                          how Microsoft
                                                          uses WhoIs
                                                          data today,
                                                          but not ETA
                                                          when that will
                                                          be ready.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          -----Original
                                                          Message-----<br>
                                                          From:<span> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><span> </span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
                                                          On Behalf Of
                                                          Gomes, Chuck<br>
                                                          Sent:
                                                          Saturday, July
                                                          16, 2016 6:29
                                                          AM<br>
                                                          To: 'Andrew
                                                          Sullivan' &lt;<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>&gt;;<span> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                                                          Subject: Re:
                                                          [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
                                                          An important
                                                          technical
                                                          consideration
                                                          about nature
                                                          of the service
                                                          (was Re: The
                                                          overflowing
                                                          list )<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Any volunteers
                                                          to develop
                                                          Andrew's
                                                          suggestions
                                                          into use
                                                          cases?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Chuck<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          -----Original
                                                          Message-----<br>
                                                          From:<span> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a><span> </span>[<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
                                                          On Behalf Of
                                                          Andrew
                                                          Sullivan<br>
                                                          Sent:
                                                          Saturday, July
                                                          16, 2016 1:00
                                                          AM<br>
                                                          To:<span> </span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                                                          Subject:
                                                          [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
                                                          An important
                                                          technical
                                                          consideration
                                                          about nature
                                                          of the service
                                                          (was Re: The
                                                          overflowing
                                                          list )<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Thanks,
                                                          Stephanie, for
                                                          the quick
                                                          issue list. 
                                                          There's one
                                                          thing that I
                                                          want to draw
                                                          out here so
                                                          that we can
                                                          keep it
                                                          foremost when
                                                          thinking of<br>
                                                          issues:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          On Sat, Jul
                                                          16, 2016 at
                                                          12:05:10AM
                                                          -0400,
                                                          Stephanie
                                                          Perrin wrote:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          &gt;  * Where
                                                          the RDS
                                                          (whether a
                                                          central
                                                          database or
                                                          federated or
                                                          completely<br>
                                                          &gt;   
                                                          disaggregated)
                                                          resides
                                                          becomes
                                                          important for
                                                          law
                                                          enforcement
                                                          access.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          This &quot;where
                                                          data resides&quot;
                                                          issue is bound
                                                          to vex us, no
                                                          matter what
                                                          kind of policy
                                                          we come up
                                                          with.  But
                                                          it's really
                                                          important to
                                                          keep in mind
                                                          that the
                                                          different
                                                          styles of
                                                          system design
                                                          will yield
                                                          very different
                                                          properties.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          In the
                                                          taxonomy I
                                                          offered before<br>
                                                          (<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmm.icann.org%2fpipermail%2fgnso-rds-pdp-wg%2f2016-June%2f000951.html&amp;data=01%7c01%7cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7c1ec700f7dd804a931a7008d3ad7d39a5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;sdata=d3d1ttF1Z5Kn9M1VZ1RKPFSppMzJHpCaIKM1LHynBBQ%3d" target="_blank">https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmm.icann.org%2fpipermail%2fgnso-rds-pdp-wg%2f2016-June%2f000951.html&amp;data=01%7c01%7cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7c1ec700f7dd804a931a7008d3ad7d39a5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&amp;sdata=d3d1ttF1Z5Kn9M1VZ1RKPFSppMzJHpCaIKM1LHynBBQ%3d</a>),<br>
                                                          models I and V
                                                          have a clear
                                                          since answer
                                                          to, &quot;Where
                                                          does the data
                                                          reside?&quot;
                                                          because they
                                                          have a single
                                                          database
                                                          backing them
                                                          up.  In models
                                                          II-IV,
                                                          however, the
                                                          answer to,
                                                          &quot;Where does
                                                          the data
                                                          reside?&quot; is
                                                          actually not
                                                          entirely
                                                          meaningful. 
                                                          There are
                                                          multiple
                                                          places where
                                                          the data are,
                                                          and for data
                                                          with respect
                                                          to any given
                                                          domain name
                                                          each datum
                                                          might be in a
                                                          different
                                                          place. 
                                                          (Indeed, part
                                                          of the design
                                                          of RDAP is
                                                          precisely to
                                                          make such
                                                          arrangements
                                                          easier to deal
                                                          with.)<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          It is
                                                          therefore
                                                          better to try
                                                          to find a way,
                                                          consistent
                                                          with all of
                                                          the various
                                                          requirements
                                                          documents, to
                                                          answer some
                                                          other
                                                          questions.<br>
                                                          I think these
                                                          might be
                                                          helpful in
                                                          building use
                                                          cases:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                              1.  For
                                                          any given
                                                          datum, who has
                                                          control of and
                                                          access to the
                                                          datum?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                              2.  For
                                                          any given
                                                          datum, what
                                                          are the
                                                          conditions
                                                          under which
                                                          the<br>
                                                              datum
                                                          ought to be
                                                          accessible?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                              3.  For
                                                          any given set
                                                          of related
                                                          data, how can
                                                          it be
                                                          accessed?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Notice that
                                                          answering (3)
                                                          will provides
                                                          use cases for
                                                          data access,
                                                          whereas (1)
                                                          and (2)
                                                          provide for
                                                          limit
                                                          conditions on
                                                          how and when
                                                          use cases
                                                          might be
                                                          apply.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I hope these
                                                          framing
                                                          questions are
                                                          helpful in
                                                          figuring out
                                                          which use
                                                          cases we can
                                                          bring to bear
                                                          on
                                                          requirements.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Best regards,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          A<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          --<br>
                                                          Andrew
                                                          Sullivan<br>
                                                          <a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><br>
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                          <span><font color="#888888">-- <br>
                              <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div>
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div>
                                        <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" style="font-size: 1em;"><span style="background-color:rgb(159,197,232)"><i>Terri Stumme</i></span></font>
                                          <div><font size="2" style="font-size: 1em;"><span style="background-color:rgb(159,197,232)"><i>Investigative
                                                  Analyst</i></span></font></div>
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    <br>
    </div></div><pre cols="72">-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
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