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<div><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Dear All,</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email and the MP3 recording below for the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working group call held on Tuesday, 09 August 2016 at 16:00 UTC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 15.6pt;"><b><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span>Mp3<span style="font-size: 12pt;">:</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span><a href="http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-09aug16-en.mp3
">http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-09aug16-en.mp3 </a><a href="http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-14jun16-en.mp3"><br>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href="http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov" style="color: purple;">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar</a></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Mailing list archives:<a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/" style="color: purple;">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Wiki page: </span><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/DAOsAw" style="font-family: -webkit-standard; font-size: 14px;">https://community.icann.org/x/DAOsAw</a></p>
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Thank you.<o:p></o:p>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Kind regards,<font size="3"><o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;">Michelle </p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNoSpacing" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><b><u><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="3">Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday</font><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="3"> 09 August 2016</font></u></b></p>
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<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Michelle DeSmyter:Dear All, Welcome to the Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group call on Tuesday, 09 August 2016 at 16:00 UTC.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Michelle DeSmyter:If you wish to speak during the call, please either dial into the audio bridge and give the operator the password RDS, OR click on the telephone icon at the top of the AC room to activate your
AC mics. Please remember to mute your phone and mics when not speaking. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Michelle DeSmyter:Agenda: <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/DAOsAw">https://community.icann.org/x/DAOsAw</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Michelle DeSmyter:Member page: <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/I4xlAw">https://community.icann.org/x/I4xlAw</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello All</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Michelle DeSmyter:Hello, Welcome Maxim! </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I called in via phone (poor ip connectivity)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Chuck Gomes:Hi all.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Richard Padilla:Hi all</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Kawaguchi:Hello All</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:Hi all</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:we hear you</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> marksv:resetting audio</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alex Deacon:...and thanks to Mark for getting to the place we are today problem statement-wise!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):last thing was about review of triage</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:hi everyone</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:I'm not aware of any obligation on an Escrow Agent to check RDS. they simply need to ensure the deposit is valid. They do not cross reference data as part of their current contract AFAIK</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:+1 to Steve M. The UDRP and URS rules rely on complainant needing access to RDS data and thus they are stakeholders too.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Daniel K. Nanghaka:Sorry am late </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Daniel K. Nanghaka:Have been in another meeting </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:Escrow operators do in fact get data encrypted. They can validate it, though, because it's encrypted to their key</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:escrow data is encrypted on receipt by the agent. but they decrypt it.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Escrow Operators have keys with the data :)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):encryption is for sending file only </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marika Konings:If I am not mistaken, P/P provider has 2 business days to 'reveal' following requesst of confirmation of registrant. After that, it is up to the panel whether to accept a reveal or not.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):this use case could be split into two or three</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:@Marika. asI recall, the P/P provider maynot reveal, but in that case, they take responsibility for whatever the domain is being used for. Something the normal providers will not do. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marika Konings:@Alan - yes that is correct. If they still decide to reveal at a later stage, it is up to the discretion of the UDRP Panel to accept updating the complaint with the information of the underlying P/P
customer or not. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:@Maxim thank you</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marika Konings:If I recall well from the discussions in the PDP, in some cases the UDRP Panel would name both or refuse to update the complaint and maintain the P/P provider as the defendant. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:RAA 3.7.7.3 A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it discloses
the current contact information provided by the licensee and the identity of the licensee within seven (7) days to a party providing the Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:which is why P/P unmask when a UDRP etc. is upon them.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:@Maxim, I think identifying the data required by each of these actors more specifically and if it comes from WHOIS today would be helpful</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):we might need to ask Michelle when he is back - abour Registrar caused service use cases </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:@maxim. escrow agents do not need to cross reference with RDS. they simply validate the contents is correctly formated</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Kal , it is not clear from the text of the contract </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I refer to Registry-Escrow Operator contratc</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:yes. they validate the contents to ensure that it meets the RA requirements</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:they are not obligated to confirm that any of the records which appear in the deposit actually exist or that they match what is in the SRS</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Kawaguchi:What about statuses of the domain name registration </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:Ayden - Under this model, how do disputes get resolved, where, against whom, on what basis?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:The authInfo should most definitely _not_ appear in the RDDS, though as Chuck is saying we shouldn't discuss that</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Kawaguchi:+1 Andreww</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Kawaguchi:Andrew</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:WHOIS misuse study link <a href="http://whois.icann.org/sites/default/files/files/misuse-study-final-13mar14-en.pdf">http://whois.icann.org/sites/default/files/files/misuse-study-final-13mar14-en.pdf</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Susan , do you refer to URS case? ( during the URS process, URS operator issue orders to Registry to set Server statuses) </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and then they check it (I assume)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:The above link refers to a study that attempted to examine various kinds of WHOIS data misuse and to determine which data elements were misused most often or most impactful on the registrant</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alex Deacon:@andrew +1</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Mark</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Richard Padilla:Sorry not hearing the speaker</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:So we need to kill of services like domainstools and everyone else which run whois history snaps</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:domaintools.com </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Benny, it is virtually impossible , only publicly available tools are visible</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:"misuse of whois data" != "misuse of RDDS data", though, so as long as we keep that in mind I'm ok</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:That is, everyone who has the slightest technical clue about this knows that whois is a terrible protocol and ou can't build a reasonable service on top of it</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:@Maxim exactly, we are discussing how to prevent this by RDS but its not worth anything if those services are still open for everyone</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Alan</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:so we need to distinguish "getting data out easily/freely/without authentication" and "whether the data is in there".</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:+1 Andrew. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):info leaks only once ... then it is replicated .</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Andrew</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Prosser:+1 Alan</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:Since I've made this point repeatedly, in the future I will abbreviate it "ObDistinctionDataAndAccess" :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:@Andrew. Definitely. The identifying data does not need to be in the DNS, but does need to be availble in the RDS.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Alan, it creates superregistry ... like TMCH, but worse :)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Alan</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:it's only useful to filter data in the nextgen RDS if it is the only source of data for whois aggregation. do we imagine that the nextgen RDS will become the only channel for registry data? or will we
try to apply the same permissions model to all registry services?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):we should not forget about ccTLDs , who, most probably will stick to WHOIS for some time</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:I would add to the data elements needs in TM use case</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:What ccTLDs do is both out of our control and out of scope for the PDP.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:Who, where and for how long is relevant/necessary to consider TM infringement.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:If the content on the site is a problem, there are two positions that people take</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Alan, agree</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:(1) you should be able to find the address of the person operating the site and therefore RDS is good for this</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:(2) you should find out the address of the person operating the server, in which case domain name registration is not what you want: contact the server operator or ISP</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:@Mark, are those data elements of the registrant, admin contact, tech contact, or all of those?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> steve metalitz:Not clear whether the ultimate "success rate" in variant 2 is relevant -- the requirement to identify/contact the registrant is the same -- isn't it? </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Steve</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> marksv:hard to hear</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:@Mark, my question was getting at identifying the party who needs to be identified for legal action - may not be a tech contact but the registrant itself</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:@Steve, success rate is relevant if the rate is zero though.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:I still have trouble seing how we can controll use of data and who gets access</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:there are no way we can controll leaks</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:@Benny - See EWG recommendation re: gating</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:as far as I can see</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:I think it is important to note that there will be lots of organisations with similar motivations or desires, but they will have different competencies and different data protection obligations. so goal
will be the same, safety of the data will not</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Richard Padilla:Sorry guys got to go another meeting to attend</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:I believe that this is an incredibly rare use of the RDS, and I believe that this is what EV certificates are for</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:+1 Andrew. I very much doubt a sizeable volume of consumers are using WHOIS for this purpose.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:(But I'm prepared for a counterargument)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:I think it's a legit use case, but in prioritisation if we lose this one it's not the end of the world</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> steve metalitz:@Andrew, I have done this as well and know others. Those are anecdotes but I recall that ICANN developed some data on this use case in the past. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:I am fully prepared to believe that anyone who knows what an ICANN is might do this ;-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Holly Raiche:This brings up the debate in the P/P Seervices WG and whether we should have distinguisned between commercial entities and non-commercial entities</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> marksv:+1, seems like a "nice to have", but not top priority use case</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:@Andrew and Ayden...glad you guys are prepared for the counter-argument. ;-) I use the WHOIS to verify the identity of websites and email addresses ALL THE TIME. It's no different than looking up
the agent for process of service for a company with which one wants to do business. You want to know who you're giving your money and info to.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> marksv:hmmm</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Prosser:+1 Steve, I hear this use case often</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:@Steve and Marina - Given, I am told, that WHOIS data is often unreliable, I would hope not many consumers are turning to WHOIS to source this information… ;-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> steve metalitz:Another similar (not identical) use case is parents looking into who is responsible for a web site their child is visiting (or wishes to visit). </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:@Andrew re: certs, Geoff Noakes is preparing an example use case to describe what cert issuers need - that would be a prerequisite for relying on EV certs instead?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:@Marina: why do you believe the whois in that case instead of your EV cert?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:Sorry but RDS cant cure stupidity...</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Prosser:@Fab - wouldn't the brand (manufacturer) also be a stakeholder? </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:Hey Ayden...actually it does help because if the WHOIS is totally random, I'll likely stay away from that site.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Elaine Pruis:apologies I have to drop off now</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:@Susan - I susppose, if they are different from the registrant</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:I have been told that the Whois Review Team did an independent study which found that consumers have no idea that Whois even exists…</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:@Susan, that's the entity associated with the domain name</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:@Marina point taken there ;-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth:the voice is not clear cant hear </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:@Ayden, that was not the WHOIS RT but there is a separate study on consumer confidence and trust that conducted some studies</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:most people doesnt even know what whois is and how to use it... </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:Just to be clear, I also am one of the people who do this regularly.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marika Konings:@Alan - I think those types of web-sites already exist that indicate whether a certain site is 'legit' or not. Presumably they use the WHOIS data as part of their assessment (e.g. when was the domain
created)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marika Konings:and I have to admit, I have done the same thing :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:The legit sites exist, but the ones I have used to not seem to be contingent on whois but rather website comments.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:there are plugins for firefox doing this already showing the basic info but most people dont understand these data</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:Oops - contents</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alex Deacon:@andrew - not all web sites use EV certs. In a world of free web server certs based on "domain validation" the in the cert (or which the issuance of the cert was based on" is only good as the rds/dns
data. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Benny Samuelsen / Nordreg AB:@alex +1</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:Alex +1</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:@Ayden, see <a href="https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2-2016-06-23-en">https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2-2016-06-23-en</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:its common to have agents register domains for you as well. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Holly Raiche:Tks Andrew</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:Thanks @Lisa </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> steve metalitz:@Andrew, does your disapproval of this use affect whether we should consider it as a use case? </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:@Steve: During the call, I convinced myself that I think the particular use case is dangerous, yeah. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:so we shouldn't accommodate it. _However_</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alex Deacon:Its cleary a valid use case, and one I suspect will underly and drive much future conversation/debate. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth:I think we should consider this use case</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:How can looking up WHOIS be dangerous? If you're savvy enough to know what it is, you probably know its vulnerabilities. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:it is possible that a modification to it, which increased the value of the RDS for reputation services</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth:I think we should consider this use case</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:@Marina: right now, not a problem. But right now, it's also such a tiny use case that it's hardly interesting</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:@Stephanie, it is correct that I may pass over some legit small vendor because of their lack of definitive whois information, but as you point out, consumers oare on there own and there are a lot
of nasty people out there, so I used whatever I can.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth:i think we shouild consider it </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:I think that what Rod is saying is more interesting, but I think that a "URL bar marker" of "who owns this domain" opens a whole new kind of consumer fraud that doesn't exist now</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Susan Prosser:+1 Rod, very valid use case</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:I believe we should absolutely consider this use case. To me, this is the most fundamental way in which one can use RDS: I am an Internet user. I want to visit a website. I wanna know whose website
that is before I send them credit card info. What is unreasonable about this?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth:there is no voice ??</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth:no audio??</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alex Deacon:audio is fine for me</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:audio is fine for me too</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:@Marina: I would like evidence that any human who is not involved in ICANN or the IETF has ever used the whois this way</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:@Alan, governments ought to regulate e-commerce. Sacrilege to talk about regulation here at ICANN , but commerce is regulated in the bricks and mortar world, there is no reason not to insist on
vendor data of some kind (not necessarily the home address of Steph's homemade quilts , to be prominently displayed online. Savvy home entrepreuneurs selling goods would be in good standing with their local small business association. This is not an area
where ICANN needs to play.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:Well, ok, ever used it that way since, say, 1999</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:The study that Lisa linked to, commissioned by ICANN and conducted by Nielsen, found that no consumers even knew what WHOIS was. Around 5% of the most experienced Internet users did.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:Ayden - No knowledge may = missed opportunity</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:& 5% of all internet users = a lot</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:As I said a minute ago, let me repeat it....massive public education job, Fab. WHo is going to take that job on? Please dont suggest using the auction funds.....</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:@Stephanie - you said it for me :)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):public companies data is available </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:@Andrew - not sure what kind of evidence you're looking for, but I talk to clients all the time whose marketing and promotions people (granted, who work with websites) know what WHOIS data is.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:this seems like a user story for whois validation</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):so it could be taken from other sources</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth: we have seen mails requesting to verify who is data , there are many inaccuracies, some deliberate , some not!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:I guess we worked together too long Fab....:-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Holly Raiche:@ Stephanie - Isn't this part of the discussion conducted in the P/PWG</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:@Fabricio – That 5% claim to know what WHOIS is does not mean they actually use the service. I would not be surprised, if we looked at the margin of error, to find that some people will say they’ve
heard of anything…</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:Indeed yes Holly, we did get into it quite a bit.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:and welcome back!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:I'm guessing from all these comments about the "5%" that maybe we should pay more attention to educational outreach. :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:Not within the ICANN mandate marina, in my view....</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth:we have seen mails asking registrants to verify registranat data, some information is inaccurate (deliberate and may be not)!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:@Marina - Careful what you wish for. Consumers may be very concerned if they realise that it’s not only information of other website owners in there – but their personal data, too!!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth:my chat window doesnt seem to work fine!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:@Marina - And possibly, going forward, if instance of occurence falls below a certain margin then it's not valid and we not consider use cases accross the board</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:Probably less than 5% of users follow good practices in setting and changing their many passwords. That does not make it something that we should not advocate.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:stated differently, if someone can't show mass occurence it's not relevant, I guess?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:@Stephanie - I disagree. Maintaining the safety and security of the DNS is absolutely within ICANN's scope. That includes consumer safety.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:+1 Alan</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:It remains to be proven that putting consumer data and the data of small entrepreneurs in an open registry is useful to the safety and security of the DNS. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alan Greenberg:Loud typing!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:To me, it seems we all care about the same thing: not letting bad people do bad things to good people. We seem to diverge on our opinions of where that threat comes from. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> karnika seth:are you able to hear anything??</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:+1 Stephanie</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:@Fabricio – We need to differentiate between use and misuse cases here. Whether it is frequent or not, even one instance of the RDS being misused is too many in my mind. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:@Stephanie - Under that logic, we could say "it remains to be seen whether removing data from public access via RDS helps with privacy"</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):could we name bad use cases - negative use case?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:@Stephanie - domain name registrants are not "consumers" in my opinion. The people who visit their websites (or receive their emails or purchase their domain name registrations) are.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:@Marina: you seem not to be attending to the difference between "who registered this domain name?" and "who is operating this site?" What you're trying to identify is the latter</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:@Ayden - From the same token, just one saved consumer is worth it</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:and the RDDS will give you the former</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:@Maxim: I prefer "misuse cases". I would not want to have any use cases referred to as "positive" ones before we enter into our deliberations.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:the gap there is an invitation to consumer fraud</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:that's the reason there's a problem. I agree with Rod that you might be able to use the data as part of a reputation service</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lisa Phifer:Michele's domain name control cases would be helpful</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> steve metalitz:Could you specify the topics of Michele's and Rod's use cases? </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):@Ayden , it might be better </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:@Andrew - they are two different things, and I am aware of that. However, when trying to determine the identity of the bad actor behind the website, the DN registration info is the best place to start.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Rod Rasmussen:Just to be clear - lots of people already ARE using whois data as part of a reputation service. :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> steve metalitz:@Lisa thanks for reminder.... </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:Frankly, I think if we had a more robust and accessible WHOIS system, many more people would use it.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:On the issue of the use of the term "consumer" perhaps we should distinguish between end users of the DNS (registrants etc) and end users of the INternet. IN my view, how end users of the Internet
(web surfers) are protectied</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Kal Feher:yay for alt time!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Stephanie Perrin:Is not within the remit of ICANN, sorry for the break in the sentence</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Fabricio Vayra:Thanks all!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> marksv:great meeting, thanks - bye till next time</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):bye all</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Ayden Férdeline:thanks all</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Nathalie Coupet:bye! thanks chuck</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Marina Lewis:Thanks all! Have a good week.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Alex Deacon:bye all</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Andrew Sullivan:bye all</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Patrick Lenihan:Very informative presentations and chats.....!</div>
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