<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Setting aside the numbers claimed, the potential for abuse should
be concern enough.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>...but we seem to be tracking ahead of the group again...</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 17.08.2016 um 13:25 schrieb Victoria
Sheckler:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:BD4CFD0D-E25B-479C-823C-790F81515D8C@riaa.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div>What evidence do you have to support that claim?<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad</div>
<div><br>
On Aug 17, 2016, at 6:42 AM, Ayden Férdeline <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com">icann@ferdeline.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="protonmail_quote"
style="padding: 0px 0px 0px 1rem; margin: 0px; border-left:
4px solid rgb(229, 229, 229); color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: Arial, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica,
sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
23.1px; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div>As to how readily data would be available from
registrars, that may or may not be true (and issues of
burdensomeness come into play as well). Will every
registrar have a 24/7 contact available to give out
information in real time to victims of abuse and
infringement and those working on their behalf?<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Do you really think that is appropriate? If I was to
receive harassing telephone calls, I would not expect to be
able to call a telecommunications company “24/7” and to be
immediately provided with their customer’s records. I would
expect access to their database to be heavily restricted. It
is not difficult to imagine the trouble that would result
from free, unrestricted, anonymous public access to a
database of telephone number account holders. Sure, a few
crimes might be solved, but a thousand times more would be
instigated by identify thieves, spammers, and stalkers. The
same concerns apply here to WHOIS or whatever form the RDS
may take.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="protonmail_signature_block">
<div>- Ayden <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">
<div>-------- Original Message --------<br>
</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Action item - gap
assessment<br>
</div>
<div>Local Time: August 17, 2016 5:59 AM<br>
</div>
<div>UTC Time: August 17, 2016 4:59 AM<br>
</div>
<div>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, I did mean16, not 19. I guess that was a result of
turning the case on its head....<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think that this shows both sides of the case, rather
than turning it on its head: that the victims in this case
may well need access to WHOIS data, irrespective of where
the data used against them came from.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As to how readily data would be available from
registrars, that may or may not be true (and issues of
burdensomeness come into play as well). Will every
registrar have a 24/7 contact available to give out
information in real time to victims of abuse and
infringement and those working on their behalf?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't know who Martha is, but with great respect, I
disagree with her.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Greg<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Tuesday, August 16, 2016, Stephanie Perrin <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><span style="font-size:undefinedpx" class="size"><span
style="font-family:Lucida Grande" class="font">Did
you mean 16? It seems so. With great respect
Greg, I think you are turning this case on its
head. Yes, WHOIS has been and likely will
continue to be a useful source of info for
identifying perpetrators of abuse. We don't
need a separate case for each type of abuse
(child porn, selling counterfeit goods, post
intimate relationship hassment, etc etc). This
use case identified the risk that abusers will
get the data they need to abuse from the WHOIS.
Lets be clear, investigators of abuse can go to
the registrar. It is not as if this data
suddenly becomes unavailable if it is not
publicly displayed. It is just not available so
readily. And that, as Martha might say, is a
good thing.</span></span><br>
</p>
<p><span style="font-size:undefinedpx" class="size"><span
style="font-family:Lucida Grande" class="font">Stephanie
Perrin</span></span><br>
</p>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 2016-08-16 19:31, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"
class="gmail_default">I think that Case 19
("WHOIS misused to shame, anger or scare a
registrant") suggests a potential gap or at
least a counter-case ("WHOIS used to find those
posting personally identifiable information to
shame, anger or scare a registrant"'). As Case
19 posits, this involves posting information on
the Internet. In many cases, the information is
posted on websites using domains registered for
such purpose, or sent using email addresses
using domains registered for that purpose.
WHOIS data is an important and much-used tool in
determining the identity of those disseminating
the PII under those circumstances.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"
class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"
class="gmail_default">I have personal experience
with this. When my client was the victim of a
doxing attack (and this involved publishing
confidential documents, not merely publicly
available contact information), WHOIS data was
critical in tracking down the identity of the
individuals responsible. There was much more to
it, but the WHOIS data was the first lead in the
chain. Without that data, the results may have
been quite different.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"
class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span
style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif"
class="font">Rather than drafting a whole new
use case, I think that this use case is
similar enough to existing use cases 06, 09,
21 and 22 to point to those cases for more
detail. I would point in particular to use
case 21's statement that "telltales may be
found in resources used to register the
domain" which in turn lead to other
information necessary to move forward.
"Telltales" may also be found in information
that is not completely accurate. This point
should not be lost -- WHOIS records can reveal
telltales and "breadcrumbs" even when the
information is not a bald-faced registration
in the name of the "miscreant" (as use case
22) put its.</span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"
class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"
class="gmail_default">Of course, if it's deemed
necessary, I can create a separate use case for
this.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"
class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"
class="gmail_default">Greg<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Lisa
Phifer <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true">lisa@corecom.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>Dear all,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>To address the following action item:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b><i>Action item</i></b>: WG members
to review example use cases and identify
any gaps that should be filled -
preferably volunteering to draft and
present them<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Example use cases identified by this WG
to date are listed below and can be found
here:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/x/JA6bAw"
rel="noreferrer">https://community.icann.org/x/<wbr>JA6bAw</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="image loading"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:part3.CCB4B344.F63B1712@mail.utoronto.ca">part3.CCB4B344.F63B1712@mail.utoronto.ca</a>><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In addition, cases originally drafted
by the EWG are listed here: <br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/60490860/EWG%20Report%20-%20Use%20Case%20and%20Data%20Annexes.doc?version=1&modificationDate=1468862831000&api=v2"
rel="noreferrer">EWG Report - Example
Use Case and Related Data Annexes.doc</a><br>
</div>
<div>Contact staff if you would like to a
copy of any EWG draft use case.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As we are trying to examine a
representative but not exhaustive set of
examples prior to deliberation (see
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://community.icann.org/x/JA6bAw"
rel="noreferrer">https://community.icann.org/x/<wbr>JA6bAw</a>),
if you believe that a different and
important example is missing from the
above table, please raise that gap to the
WG's attention.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,<br>
</div>
<div>Lisa<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
</div>
<div>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="noreferrer"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span>
<span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</span>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span>
<span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></span></div>
</blockquote>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre></body></html>