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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I think it is
important to define these terms even for the purposes of this
document. Firstly, many people think of consumers as users of
the Internet, not necessarily consumers of the RDS product we
come up with, or registrants (eg law enforcement argument for
consumer protection, not necessarily getting consumers
motivated to check the RDS themselves). We need to clarify
our use of this word, in my view. Secondly, end-users in the
context of the RDS in my view means those who use the product
we come up with....includes bulk purchasers, private sector
security folks, domain speculators, etc. <br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I am responsible for
complaining about the words "ever evolving global internet" as
I believe we open too wide a door here. Some parties want
ICANN to be one-stop-shopping for Internet issues, I do not. I
believe I represent the majority view of the NCSG stakeholder
group in that regard. Therefore I want to constrain that
language. I also want to set realistic expectations, we are
not going to solve all the problems, nor should we try. I
agree having the notion (caution) that we are working on an
aspect (DNS) of an infrastructure that is dynamic and evolving
is a good idea. It is hard to word in a way that does not
fling open the door to all issues, though. If you want it
back in, Ayden, can you come up with something limited?<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I agree with Ayden's
use of claim. I am not sure that everyone who wants more
information in the RDS has a valid "claim" to be a
stakeholder. Opportunistic promotion of free personal data
happens all the time, I would call that a claim, not a
stakeholder right. If we start getting into what rights end
users of the INternet have we had better buckle up for a long
ride. We will have enough trouble pushing back existing practices
that violate law and fail to recognize registrant risk. We
have to examine all such use cases as "claims". I am also
aware that as one who claims to be representing end users
generally at ICANN (ie the civil society role) I will have to
justify my claims as well. WHile I take Sam's point that the
quibble could be "do I represent end users, am I therefore a
stakeholder" but I am convinced that is not where the discussion
needs to be. Stakeholders make claims, we need to examine
those claims.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">As for the vesting
issue.... since we at ICANN represent a tiny proportion of
those in the ecosystem, I think vesting could be dropped.
Folks have an interest. Those who are not paying attention arguably
don't have a vested interest. It's a quibble but it just
might be one word too many there.<br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">cheers Stephanie Perrin</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-08-17 11:58, Sam Lanfranco
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:113aef05-e5be-24c4-62f2-7bb6dab763e4@lanfranco.net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
I want to quibble a bit about wording here. <br>
<br>
First, we normally think of "Consumers" as "end-users" so adding
end-users may be redundant. <br>
<br>
Second, vested interest is normally taken to mean "a personal
stake or involvement" in something like an undertaking (e.g.
policy making) or state of affairs (e.g. policy implementation),
or something with an expectation of financial gain. Those who are
stakeholders have, by definition, a vested interest. I don't like
the proposed wording around "claim to". If there is a claim issue
here, it is whether or not one qualifies as a stakeholder,. It is
not whether or not stakeholders have a vested interest. <br>
<br>
Sam L., NPOC/CSIH<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><i>On 8/17/2016 11:00 AM, Ayden
Férdeline wrote:</i><i><br>
</i></div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:61tSJH4lE5XIbDPXrNAGJ5eFpM0BxT-fTzKtLBc_r4DPVfdJBdx7J_rqkFBzj24ztU9ckjyyTVfEgTrcuJV-q9bTOhgfx21QXM829lj5_dI=@ferdeline.com"
type="cite">
<div><i>Hi Greg,</i><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i><i>Thank you for taking the time to suggest these
revisions. I would like to respectfully submit that we
maintain, in the first paragraph, the reference to the
"ever-evolving global Internet."</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i>With regards to the second paragraph, you suggested:
“Consumers, the domain name industry, governments,
intellectual property owners, registrants, and a variety of
other stakeholders all have a vested interest in an RDS
system…” </i><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i>A fairer framing would be: “Consumers, the domain name
industry, governments, intellectual property owners,
registrants, </i><i><b><u>end-users</u>,</b></i><i> and a
variety of other stakeholders </i><i><b><u>claim to</u></b></i><i>
have a vested interest in an RDS system…”</i><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i>Text is underlined and in bold solely for legibility
purposes. Please let me know if you have any questions or
concerns regarding this alteration.</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i>Best wishes,</i></div>
<div><i><br>
</i></div>
<div class="protonmail_signature_block">
<div><i>Ayden Férdeline</i><i><br>
</i></div>
<div><i><a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline">linkedin.com/in/ferdeline</a></i><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite">
<div>-------- Original Message --------<br>
</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined
Problem Statement<br>
</div>
<div>Local Time: August 17, 2016 3:45 PM<br>
</div>
<div>UTC Time: August 17, 2016 2:45 PM<br>
</div>
<div>From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gca@icginc.com">gca@icginc.com</a><br>
</div>
<div>To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:lisa@corecom.com,gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">lisa@corecom.com,gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-family:Calibri,
sans-serif" class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt"
class="size">Thanks to the drafting team. My
comments are as follows.</span></span></a><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">First paragraph:
the addition of “</span></span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">(domain name)”
does not help, and makes the sentence more
confusing.</span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">First paragraph:
as per the meeting notes, “ever-evolving global
Internet” is probably not necessary. (And divining
the future is difficult.)</span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Top of second
paragraph: Add the words “a variety of other
stakeholders’” so as to read: “</span></span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Consumers, the
domain name industry, governments, intellectual
property owners, registrants, and a variety of
other stakeholders all have a vested interest in an
RDS system…” The current list in the draft is not
comprehensive, and other stakeholders have been
identified by our WG, the EWG, etc. We cannot imply
that the current list is authoritative or complete.</span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Second
paragraph: “performant” is not a defined word in the
English language; it’s more software developer
slang. In a document like this, I suggest we use
words that are well-defined and our global audience
can rely upon. I think we are trying to say:
“performs well”.</span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Third paragraph:
rather than “constituency” I think we mean and
should use “set of stakeholders.” “Stakeholders”
ties back to the text above. And at ICANN,
“constituency” has a specific meaning and we want to
avoid confusion with that. </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Third paragraph:
Regarding this section: “This understanding will
enable the Working Group to ensure the policies
which enable an effective RDS also define a secure
and safe environment for commerce and
communication.” This formulation seems overly
broad. While security, abuse, and privacy are
considerations, a “safe environment for commerce and
communication” on the Internet is much broader than
those, and involves far more than registration
data. </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">So, what are
drafters aiming at here, and can a reasonable scope
and intent be expressed? I wonder if that sentence
is needed at all.</span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">Third paragraph:
“within the RDS”. Do you mean “that uses the RDS”?
“Within the RDS” implies being embedded somehow. As
always, use of the term “system” can be confusing if
not defined on context, since sometimes in this WG
“system” refers to a technical system (like an ARDS)
and sometimes “system” refers to the wider ecosystem
of interlocking policies and technical
implementations.</span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">With best
wishes,</span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size">--Greg</span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:10pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:10pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:10pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> </span></span></span><br>
</p>
<div><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif"
class="font"><span style="font-size:11pt"
class="size">From:</span></span></b><span
style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif" class="font"><span
style="font-size:11pt" class="size"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Lisa Phifer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 17, 2016 2:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RDS PDP WG <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review -
Redlined Problem Statement</span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <br>
</p>
<div>Dear all,<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> Attached please find a redlined version of the problem
statement produced by the drafting team for WG review.
This redline includes edits discussed during today's WG
call.<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <b><i>Action item</i></b><i>: WG to review redline
version of the problem statement and share any further
comments/edits with the mailing list ahead of next
week's meeting. <br>
<br>
</i>Thank you to the drafting team for their work, and to
all WG members for reviewing the attached redline with the
goal of finalizing this statement on the next WG call.</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> Best,<br>
</div>
<div> Lisa<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca">Lanfran@Yorku.ca</a> Skype: slanfranco
blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://samlanfranco.blogspot.com">http://samlanfranco.blogspot.com</a>
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852</pre>
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