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    <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I have a hunch you
          have been in one too many CWG meetings Greg....take the
          weekend off!  Before you start typing in caps.  possibly in
          pink font....(not to be taken as an accusatory comment, of
          course....)</font></font></p>
    <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">cheers Stephanie</font></font><br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-08-19 20:05, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CA+aOHUQ6pUbsSO+FdOdyy3_dVZkQEMmXOePCuib=BwDcqfxewg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Stephanie,</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
          Thank you for clarifying upon what you were commenting.  Since
          your comment came as a reply to Chuck's comment, I thought you
          were commenting on that comment, and not on the underlying
          exchange of comments.  </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">That said, I did not
          find (the other) Greg's (not to be confused with the other
          other Greg) comments accusatory, either.  Just wanted to
          clarify that.  </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">To be consistent with
          my prior statement that I would not comment on comments, etc.,
          I will refrain from any further comments on comments, etc., in
          this thread at this time (reserving the right to revert at
          some future time and comment on comments, etc., in the event
          that commenting on comments, etc., becomes so prevalent that I
          need not eschew commenting on comments, etc., as my attempt to
          staunch an infinite comment-loop will have been for naught and
          thus rendered moot; having not reached such point (thankfully)
          I will go on mute).</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg (S.)</div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 7:23 PM,
          Stephanie Perrin <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
              target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
              <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I beg your
                    pardon, I was referring to the discussion between
                    Greg and Ayden, not Chuck's intervention.</font></font></p>
              <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">this is of
                    course a comment on the comment.....but not on the
                    other comment.</font></font></p>
              <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
                  <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Stephanie</font></font><br>
                  </p>
                </font></span>
              <div>
                <div class="h5"> <br>
                  <div>On 2016-08-19 19:20, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote type="cite">
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I did not
                        find Chuck's comments in any way "accusatory."
                         If anything, I found them well-considered and
                        admirable in their restraint.</div>
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If
                        anything, Chuck's intervention may have
                        prevented "accusatory" comments from making
                        their way to the list.  As such, I would suggest
                        that Chuck's comments were an exercise in
                        "de-escalation."</div>
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In that
                        vein, I will refrain from commenting on
                        comments, or commenting on comments about
                        comments or commenting on comments about
                        comments about comments, though if I wanted to
                        comment on comments or comments on comments or
                        comments on comments on comments, I would have
                        comments to make. But I won't.</div>
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                      </div>
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at
                        7:08 PM, Stephanie Perrin <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"
                            target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>&gt;</span>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                            <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
                                  Grande">Gentlemen, with great respect,
                                  I think you are being a bit hard on
                                  Ayden here. If, as our next-gen rep
                                  here on the group, he were not
                                  questioning authority, I might be
                                  afraid he had somehow "missed the
                                  memo".  I think the tone has become a
                                  bit accusatory on both sides and we
                                  should de-escalate.  I agree that we
                                  must be exceedingly careful about
                                  putting words in each others mouths. 
                                  However, questioning the efficacy of
                                  oversight of police data protection
                                  compliance is fair game in my view and
                                  in the view of most privacy scholars
                                  (Korff, Brown, Bennett and Raab,
                                  Anderson etc.).  Diana Alonso Blass
                                  (who came to ICANN in 2003 or 04
                                  representing the Article 29 Working
                                  Party) and now of Eurojust speaks
                                  regularly on some of these issues at
                                  the data protection commissioners'
                                  annual conference and at CPDP and
                                  there can be heated debate.  Oversight
                                  of law enforcement, particularly cross
                                  border law enforcement, is difficult
                                  just as the actual law enforcement is
                                  difficult.  There are many reasons for
                                  this:</font></font></p>
                            <ul>
                              <li><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
                                    Grande">law enforcement authorities
                                    have (legitimate) exemptions under
                                    data protection law for collection
                                    use and disclosure, making it easy
                                    to accidently abuse that discretion
                                    <br>
                                  </font></font></li>
                              <li><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
                                    Grande">Data protection authorities
                                    frequently choose to direct
                                    enforcement actions in other areas,
                                    given the constant shortage of
                                    resources and the publicity
                                    (reaching political uproar at
                                    times)  that can come with
                                    enforcement against police<br>
                                  </font></font></li>
                              <li><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
                                    Grande">governments often take a dim
                                    view of data protection
                                    commissioners who go after the
                                    police (I can cite examples if you
                                    wish but I realize noone wants to
                                    read an article on the difficulties
                                    of dp oversight of law enforcement</font></font></li>
                            </ul>
                            <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida
                                  Grande">Some of the European DP
                                  authorities testified in the 2014
                                  inquiry into NSA surveillance....I
                                  realize this is about intelligence,
                                  but certainly Europol and cybercrime
                                  were mentioned.  <a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+REPORT+A7-2014-0139+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN"
                                    target="_blank">http://www.europarl.europa.eu/<wbr>sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//<wbr>NONSGML+REPORT+A7-2014-0139+0+<wbr>DOC+PDF+V0//EN</a>. 
                                  Given the global nature of law
                                  enforcement in our subject area, and
                                  the perceived failure of certain
                                  instruments such as the Cybercrime
                                  treaty, and the general shock and
                                  outrage expressed during the inquiry I
                                  just cited, particularly over cross
                                  border data sharing, I think it is
                                  reasonable to question assertions of
                                  compliance with data protection law.
                                  You will find the list of witnesses in
                                  the appendix.  Jacob Kohnstamm was one
                                  of them, as was Peter Hustinx, and let
                                  me finally remind you of my favorite
                                  quote from Kohnstamm</font> <font
                                  face="Lucida Grande">'s 2012 letter to
                                  Crocker:  </font></font><br>
                            </p>
                            <p> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                              style="margin-left:36.0pt;line-height:200%"><span
                                lang="EN-US">“The Working Party strongly
                                objects to the introduction of data
                                retention by means of a contract issued
                                by a private corporation in order to
                                facilitate (public) law enforcement.<span> 
                                </span>If there is a pressing social
                                need for specific collections of
                                personal data to be available for law
                                enforcement, and the proposed data
                                retention is proportionate to the
                                legitimate aim pursued, it is up to
                                national governments to introduce
                                legislation that meets the demands of
                                article 8 of the European Convention on
                                Human Rights and article 17 of the
                                International Covenant on civil and
                                Political rights”. <span> </span>(Kohnstamm
                                to Crocker and Atallah, 26 September
                                2012).</span></p>
                            <p><font face="Lucida Grande" size="+1">The
                                bottom line here is that civil society
                                correctly has questions about the
                                efficacy of  oversight.  Please don't
                                take it personally, it is not meant that
                                way.  It is our job to question. I would
                                agree that Europol has an excellent
                                oversight regime, in comparative terms,
                                (I wish we had it in North America) but
                                that does not mean it works all the
                                time. While we are not here to criticize
                                particular countries or regions, please
                                admit the idea of criticism in general.
                                It is important. <br>
                                <span><font color="#888888"> </font></span></font></p>
                            <span><font color="#888888">
                                <p><font face="Lucida Grande" size="+1">Stephanie
                                    Perrin</font><br>
                                </p>
                              </font></span>
                            <div>
                              <div> <br>
                                <div>On 2016-08-18 18:55, Gomes, Chuck
                                  wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Ayden,</span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I
                                        appreciate your frequent
                                        contributions because you share
                                        some important concerns.  But I
                                        want to communicate some
                                        concerns I have about how you
                                        are doing that.  Please see my
                                        comments below.</span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Chuck</span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
                                          target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>
                                        [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
                                          target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</a>]
                                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ayden
                                        Férdeline<br>
                                        <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August
                                        18, 2016 4:48 PM<br>
                                        <b>To:</b> Mounier, Grégory<br>
                                        <b>Cc:</b> RDS PDP WG<br>
                                        <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                        [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] @EXT: RE: Use
                                        cases: Fundamental, Incidental,
                                        and Theoretical</span></p>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">Hi Greg, </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">I don’t
                                          mean to sound provocative,
                                          however I would like to make
                                          sure I am interpreting your
                                          comments correctly. Please see
                                          inline below. </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">Ayden</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote
                                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">--------
                                          Original Message --------</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">Subject:
                                          @EXT: RE: Use cases:
                                          Fundamental, Incidental, and
                                          Theoretical</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">Local Time:
                                          August 18, 2016 7:00 PM</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">UTC Time:
                                          August 18, 2016 6:00 PM</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">From: <a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="mailto:gregory.mounier@europol.europa.eu"
                                            target="_blank">gregory.mounier@europol.europa<wbr>.eu</a></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">To: <a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
                                            target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com,gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                                            target="_blank">icann@ferdeline.com,gnso-rds-p<wbr>dp-wg@icann.org</a></p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Yes
                                              Greg: </span></span><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">unlike
                                              what Ayden seems to imply:
                                            </span></span></p>
                                        <p><span><span
                                              style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span></span><span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">         </span></span><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Europol
                                              is not advocating that
                                              personal information be
                                              processed in a manner
                                              inconsistent with European
                                              law;</span></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">I am pleased
                                        to hear this. However, it the <a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://secure.edps.europa.eu/EDPSWEB/webdav/site/mySite/shared/Documents/Consultation/Comments/2014/14-04-17_EDPS_letter_to_ICANN_EN.pdf"
title="https://secure.edps.europa.eu/EDPSWEB/webdav/site/mySite/shared/Documents/Consultation/Comments/2014/14-04-17_EDPS_letter_to_ICANN_EN.pdf"
                                          target="_blank"> opinion</a>
                                        of the European Commission’s own
                                        Data Protection Supervisor that
                                        the data retention requirements
                                        contained with the 2013 RAA and
                                        the Draft Specification
                                        “continue to fall short of
                                        compliance with European data
                                        protection law.” You have built
                                        a use case around how the WHOIS
                                        protocol operates today, which
                                        itself contains data sourced
                                        from registrars through
                                        practices which are inconsistent
                                        with the privacy laws of many
                                        (all?) EU Member States.</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Chuck
                                              Gomes] Greg did not say
                                              that the 2013 RAA is
                                              compliant with European
                                              law; he only said Europol
                                              is.</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote
                                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                      <div>
                                        <p><span><span
                                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span></span><span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">         </span></span><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Europol
                                              access and processing of
                                              WHOIS information is in
                                              line with European Data
                                              protection rules;</span></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">I am glad
                                        that this is the case. Could you
                                        please expand upon how, under
                                        what circumstances, and how
                                        frequently Europol currently
                                        retrieves WHOIS records?</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Chuck
                                              Gomes] This is a terribly
                                              broad request and one that
                                              I suspect may be very
                                              difficult to respond to. 
                                              Europol is not the topic
                                              of discussion .  Insight
                                              they can provide will be
                                              helpful when we deliberate
                                              just like your insights. 
                                              In all cases we will do
                                              our best to validate
                                              information we use.</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote
                                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                      <div>
                                        <p><span><span
                                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span></span><span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">         </span></span><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Europol
                                              does not “trawl” the
                                              WHOIS;</span></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Are you
                                        saying, then, that you do not
                                        find the WHOIS protocol useful
                                        in solving crime? If you are not
                                        collecting its records in bulk,
                                        I would suggest that we revise
                                        your use case of 25 July to
                                        reflect this reality. </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Chuck
                                              Gomes] He did not say
                                              that.  I encourage you to
                                              avoid adding to what he
                                              said.</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">We should
                                        remove the reference to “Python
                                        DNS scripts or domain tool API”
                                        being utilised to identify
                                        connections between DNS
                                        information and potentially
                                        troublesome websites, and
                                        replace it with something which
                                        respects the right to, say, due
                                        process. </p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Chuck
                                              Gomes] Please remember
                                              that our objective is not
                                              to create perfect use
                                              cases.</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">After all,
                                        illegal content like child abuse
                                        material (which you flagged in
                                        your use case) is just that –
                                        illegal. Illegal material should
                                        be dealt with in a legal manner.
                                        You should not be advocating for
                                        the circumvention of the rule of
                                        law; to do so is a direct
                                        violation of the human rights
                                        standards that Europol has
                                        committed itself to upholding.</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Chuck
                                              Gomes] Who is advocating
                                              for the “</span></i></b>the
                                        circumvention of the rule of law<b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">”? 
                                              I think that the
                                              implication you make here
                                              is inappropriate.</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote
                                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                      <div>
                                        <p><span><span
                                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1f497d">·</span></span><span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d">         </span></span><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Europol
                                              is indeed subject to one
                                              of the most stringent data
                                              protection framework in
                                              the LEA world. </span></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Whether that
                                        is reality or rhetoric, I do not
                                        know. My gut feeling is that
                                        Europol’s data protection
                                        provisions are comprehensive in
                                        theory, but critically
                                        undermined by procedural
                                        weakness. One example that comes
                                        to mind: the Europol Joint
                                        Supervisory Body is the
                                        independent body which
                                        supposedly monitors your
                                        adherence to data protection
                                        rules. However, it has no powers
                                        of enforcement, it can only
                                        “make any complaints it deems
                                        necessary to the Director” of
                                        Europol.</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Chuck
                                              Gomes] I think it best if
                                              you avoid criticizing
                                              specific organizations and
                                              stick to issues.</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote
                                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I’ll
                                              stop here because this is
                                              only partially relevant to
                                              this PDP.</span></span></p>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">My
                                        understanding has been that some
                                        politicians in the EU have been
                                        reluctant to expand Europol’s
                                        remit/mandate, given concerns
                                        around effectiveness and a
                                        perceived democratic deficit, so
                                        it is fascinating to me to see
                                        Europol working to expand its
                                        powers and data collection
                                        abilities in working groups such
                                        as this one.</p>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">[Chuck
                                              Gomes] Once again I think
                                              you are concluding more
                                              than is reasonable and
                                              also don’t find you
                                              comment here constructive.</span></i></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote
                                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Best</span></span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Greg</span></span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b></span><span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                                              Greg Shatan [<a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
                                                target="_blank">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.co<wbr>m</a>]
                                            </span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
                                            <span><b>Sent:</b> 18 August
                                              2016 19:49</span><br>
                                            <span><b>To:</b> Mounier,
                                              Grégory</span><br>
                                            <span><b>Cc:</b> Ayden
                                              Férdeline; RDS PDP WG</span><br>
                                            <span><b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                              [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] @EXT:
                                              RE: Use cases:
                                              Fundamental, Incidental,
                                              and Theoretical</span></span></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Greg,</span></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">For the
                                                  rest of us who may not
                                                  be so well informed,
                                                  is there something
                                                  more we should
                                                  understand and take
                                                  into account in
                                                  considering this
                                                  particular
                                                  back-and-forth?</span></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Thanks!</span></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Greg
                                                  Shatan</span></span></p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                          <div>
                                            <p class="MsoNormal">On Thu,
                                              Aug 18, 2016 at 1:45 PM,
                                              Mounier, Grégory &lt;<a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="mailto:gregory.mounier@europol.europa.eu"
                                                target="_blank">gregory.mounier@europol.europ<wbr>a.eu</a>&gt;
                                              wrote:</p>
                                            <div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Dear
                                                      Ayden, </span></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I
                                                      objected because
                                                      some of your
                                                      statements were
                                                      misinformed so I
                                                      thought that I
                                                      should help and
                                                      clarify. But it
                                                      seems that you are
                                                      very well informed
                                                      and that you don’t
                                                      need further
                                                      explanations </span></span><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Best
                                                      regards, </span></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Greg</span></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b></span><span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                                                      Ayden Férdeline
                                                      [mailto:<a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank">icann@ferdeline.com</a>]
                                                    </span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
                                                    <span><b>Sent:</b>
                                                      18 August 2016
                                                      19:27</span><br>
                                                    <span><b>To:</b>
                                                      Mounier, Grégory</span><br>
                                                    <span><b>Cc:</b> Rob
                                                      Golding; RDS PDP
                                                      WG</span><br>
                                                    <span><b>Subject:</b>
                                                      Re: @EXT: RE:
                                                      [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
                                                      Use cases:
                                                      Fundamental,
                                                      Incidental, and
                                                      Theoretical</span></span></p>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Thank
                                                    you for the
                                                    response, Greg. I
                                                    did not mean to
                                                    suggest that Europol
                                                    was <b>wholly</b>exempt
                                                    from European data
                                                    protection
                                                    regulations, because
                                                    it is not. In my
                                                    original message, I
                                                    wrote: </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><i>"...your
                                                      agency is exempt
                                                      from <b>some</b>
                                                      of the general
                                                      provisions on data
                                                      processing." </i></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal">I
                                                    have bolded the word
                                                    ‘some’ on this
                                                    occasion for
                                                    emphasis. When I
                                                    wrote that Europol
                                                    had exemptions from
                                                    <b>some</b>of the
                                                    general provisions
                                                    on data processing,
                                                    I was referring to
                                                    the Europol Council
                                                    Decision as
                                                    published in the
                                                    Official Journal of
                                                    the European Union
                                                    on 15 May 2009. I am
                                                    sure you are
                                                    intimately familiar
                                                    with this document,
                                                    as you cited it in
                                                    your email to me
                                                    today as providing
                                                    the “basis for
                                                    Europol to establish
                                                    and maintain
                                                    cooperative
                                                    relations with Union
                                                    or Community
                                                    institutions,
                                                    bodies, offices and
                                                    agencies; third
                                                    States and
                                                    organisations;
                                                    private parties and
                                                    private persons in
                                                    so far as it is
                                                    relevant to the
                                                    performance of its
                                                    tasks.” </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Aside
                                                    from this, this
                                                    decision contains
                                                    data processing
                                                    rules which were, to
                                                    quote you again in
                                                    your email,
                                                    "tailor-made" for
                                                    Europol, and is
                                                    complemented by a
                                                    set of
                                                    implementation
                                                    guidelines which
                                                    privilege Europol
                                                    with the ability to
                                                    process personal
                                                    data “for the
                                                    purpose of
                                                    prevention,
                                                    investigation,
                                                    detection and
                                                    prosecution of
                                                    criminal offences or
                                                    the execution of
                                                    criminal penalties”
                                                    in a manner that
                                                    would not be
                                                    permitted of other
                                                    stakeholders.</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Given
                                                    this, I'm unsure as
                                                    to why you found my
                                                    comments so
                                                    objectionable, but I
                                                    hope this email has
                                                    brought about some
                                                    more clarity. If
                                                    not, I am happy to
                                                    expand upon my
                                                    thoughts.</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,</p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">Ayden
                                                    </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                                <blockquote
                                                  style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">--------
                                                      Original Message
                                                      --------</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">Subject:
                                                      @EXT: RE:
                                                      [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
                                                      Use cases:
                                                      Fundamental,
                                                      Incidental, and
                                                      Theoretical</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">Local
                                                      Time: August 18,
                                                      2016 5:54 PM</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">UTC
                                                      Time: August 18,
                                                      2016 4:54 PM</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">From:
                                                      <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregory.mounier@europol.europa.eu" target="_blank">gregory.mounier@europol.europa<wbr>.eu</a></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">To:
                                                      <a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank">icann@ferdeline.com</a></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                        href="mailto:rob.golding@astutium.com,gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                                                        target="_blank">rob.golding@astutium.com,gnso-<wbr>rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Dear
                                                          Ayden, </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Thank
                                                          you very much
                                                          for sharing
                                                          your concerns
                                                          and apologies
                                                          for the late
                                                          response, I
                                                          was away from
                                                          the office.</span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I
                                                          am not sure
                                                          how you got
                                                          the perception
                                                          that Europol
                                                          was “trawling”
                                                          through WHOIS
                                                          records or
                                                          that Europol
                                                          was “exempt
                                                          from some of
                                                          the general
                                                          provisions on
                                                          data
                                                          processing” or
                                                          even that our
                                                          legal
                                                          framework
                                                          limited the
                                                          ability of
                                                          Europol staff
                                                          to process
                                                          data from
                                                          publicly
                                                          available
                                                          sources
                                                          related to
                                                          “terror
                                                          manuals” or
                                                          “criminals
                                                          claiming
                                                          credit for
                                                          attacks”.</span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">In
                                                          fact, I can
                                                          assure you
                                                          that <u>Europol
                                                          is not
                                                          exempted from
                                                          the general
                                                          provisions on
                                                          data
                                                          protection</u>.
                                                          European data
                                                          protection
                                                          legislation
                                                          has been
                                                          implemented in
                                                          the
                                                          organisation
                                                          with the aim
                                                          of creating a
                                                          legal
                                                          framework
                                                          which balances
                                                          the
                                                          fundamental
                                                          interests of
                                                          freedom and
                                                          security. The
                                                          tailor-made
                                                          set of rules
                                                          provides
                                                          Europol with
                                                          one of the
                                                          strongest,
                                                          most robust
                                                          data
                                                          protection
                                                          framework in
                                                          the world of
                                                          law
                                                          enforcement.</span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"> </p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">As
                                                          far as data
                                                          exchange
                                                          inside the EU
                                                          is concerned,
                                                          Art.22-25 of
                                                          Europol
                                                          Council
                                                          Decision (ECD)
                                                          provides a
                                                          basis for
                                                          Europol to
                                                          establish and
                                                          maintain
                                                          cooperative
                                                          relations with
                                                          Union or
                                                          Community
                                                          institutions,
                                                          bodies,
                                                          offices and
                                                          agencies;
                                                          third States
                                                          and
                                                          organisations;
                                                          private
                                                          parties and
                                                          private
                                                          persons in so
                                                          far as it is
                                                          relevant to
                                                          the
                                                          performance of
                                                          its tasks.</span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Europol
                                                          exchanges
                                                          personal data
                                                          only with
                                                          third parties
                                                          which have an
                                                          adequate level
                                                          of data
                                                          protection.
                                                          The prior data
                                                          protection
                                                          assessment of
                                                          the third
                                                          party involves
                                                          a check on the
                                                          necessary data
                                                          protection
                                                          legislation
                                                          and
                                                          confidentiality
                                                          rules in place
                                                          and in
                                                          practice. The
                                                          list of the
                                                          third
                                                          countries with
                                                          which Europol
                                                          has
                                                          established an
                                                          operational
                                                          agreement is
                                                          published on
                                                          our website. </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">In
                                                          addition,
                                                          Europol can
                                                          receive
                                                          information
                                                          from private
                                                          parties such
                                                          as companies,
                                                          business
                                                          associations
                                                          or non-profit
                                                          organisations.
                                                          As with any
                                                          transfer of
                                                          personal data,
                                                          this process
                                                          is subject to
                                                          data
                                                          protection
                                                          controls. </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Last
                                                          but not least,
                                                          in line with
                                                          the respective
                                                          provisions of
                                                          the ECD,
                                                          Europol can
                                                          also retrieve
                                                          and process
                                                          data,
                                                          including
                                                          personal data,
                                                          from publicly
                                                          available
                                                          sources, such
                                                          as media and
                                                          public data
                                                          and commercial
                                                          intelligence
                                                          providers, in
                                                          accordance
                                                          with the data
                                                          protection
                                                          framework.</span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">I
                                                          hope that I
                                                          could clarify
                                                          some of the
                                                          issues you
                                                          raised. </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Kind
                                                          regards, </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Greg</span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"> </span></span></p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div
                                                        style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                                        #b5c4df
                                                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
                                                        0in 0in 0in">
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b></span><span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
                                                          Ayden
                                                          Férdeline [<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank">mailto:icann@ferdeline.com</a>]
                                                          </span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
                                                          <span><b>Sent:</b>
                                                          08 August 2016
                                                          14:11</span><br>
                                                          <span><b>To:</b>
                                                          Mounier,
                                                          Grégory</span><br>
                                                          <span><b>Cc:</b>
                                                          Rob Golding;
                                                          RDS PDP WG</span><br>
                                                          <span><b>Subject:</b>
                                                          Re:
                                                          [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
                                                          @EXT: RE: Use
                                                          cases:
                                                          Fundamental,
                                                          Incidental,
                                                          and
                                                          Theoretical</span></span></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                    <table
                                                      style="width:100.0%"
                                                      border="0"
                                                      cellpadding="0"
                                                      cellspacing="0"
                                                      width="100%">
                                                      <tbody>
                                                        <tr>
                                                          <td
                                                          style="padding:0in
                                                          0in 0in 0in"
                                                          valign="top">
                                                          <table
                                                          border="0"
                                                          cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
                                                          <tbody>
                                                          <tr>
                                                          <td
                                                          style="padding:0in
                                                          0in 0in 0in"
                                                          valign="top">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Greg,</span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I am
                                                          disappointed
                                                          that Europol
                                                          seems to be
                                                          advocating
                                                          that personal
                                                          information be
                                                          processed in a
                                                          manner
                                                          inconsistent
                                                          with European
                                                          law.</span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I fully
                                                          appreciate
                                                          that, in order
                                                          to allow
                                                          Europol to
                                                          collect
                                                          sensitive
                                                          information
                                                          from the
                                                          Member States
                                                          in the pursuit
                                                          of
                                                          investigations,
                                                          your agency is
                                                          exempt from
                                                          some of the
                                                          general
                                                          provisions on
                                                          data
                                                          processing.
                                                          You are
                                                          permitted to
                                                          directly
                                                          retrieve and
                                                          process
                                                          information
                                                          obtained from
publicly-available sources, but the promotional literature on the
                                                          Europol
                                                          website
                                                          suggests
                                                          Europol agents
                                                          searching for
publicly-available ‘terror manuals’ or criminals claiming credit for
                                                          attacks. There
                                                          is no
                                                          indication
                                                          that this
                                                          includes
                                                          Europol
                                                          trawling
                                                          through things
                                                          like WHOIS
                                                          records to
                                                          identify the
                                                          administrator
                                                          of a website,
                                                          something far
                                                          less sinister.
                                                          And if the RDS
                                                          evolves into
                                                          something very
                                                          different from
                                                          what it is
                                                          today –
                                                          perhaps not
                                                          open to any
                                                          and everyone
                                                          to query, or
                                                          federated into
                                                          a single data
                                                          store – my
                                                          understanding
                                                          is that the
                                                          routing of
                                                          information
                                                          from a private
                                                          party to
                                                          Europol would
                                                          be subject to
                                                          European data
                                                          protection
                                                          controls and
                                                          safeguards.</span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The very
                                                          specific
                                                          exemptions
                                                          that Europol
                                                          has received
                                                          in order to
                                                          carry out its
                                                          work simply do
                                                          not call for
                                                          Europol to
                                                          advocate for a
                                                          lower standard
                                                          of privacy
                                                          protection for
                                                          European
                                                          residents in
                                                          privately-owned
                                                          or
                                                          publicly-accessible
                                                          sources of
                                                          information.</span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">There is
                                                          no doubt that
                                                          effective
                                                          police work
                                                          requires top
                                                          intelligence,
                                                          but equally as
                                                          important is
                                                          the employment
                                                          of sound data
                                                          protection
                                                          safeguards
                                                          which strike
                                                          an appropriate
                                                          balance
                                                          between the
                                                          interests of
                                                          freedom and
                                                          security.</span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Just my
                                                          $0.02.</span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> </span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">- Ayden</span></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
src="https://app.mixmax.com/api/track/v2/PsCAAXCzeb1f72NwN/i02bj5SZulGblRmclZGQu5WYjlmI/ISdl5SYw9mc1VmLs9GcvJXdlBkcllmb19WbukncvdWZydmI/gI5J3bnl6wydEIsIXZp5Wdv1kI?sc=false"
                                                          align="left"></p>
                                                          </td>
                                                          </tr>
                                                          </tbody>
                                                          </table>
                                                          </td>
                                                        </tr>
                                                      </tbody>
                                                    </table>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p> </p>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal">On
                                                          Thu, Aug 4,
                                                          2016 1:59 PM,
                                                          wrote:</p>
                                                          <p>Dear Rob, </p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>Thanks for
                                                          sharing the
                                                          outcome of
                                                          your chat with
                                                          ex-FBI and UK
                                                          LEA agents. I
                                                          feel that I
                                                          need to step
                                                          in to provide
                                                          a different
                                                          perspective
                                                          than the one
                                                          you just gave
                                                          on the law
                                                          enforcement
                                                          use of the
                                                          WHOIS. It
                                                          might be a
                                                          matter of
                                                          interpretation
                                                          but the views
                                                          expressed by
                                                          your
                                                          interlocutors
                                                          are not shared
                                                          by my
                                                          colleagues
                                                          working
                                                          throughout
                                                          European
                                                          police cyber
                                                          divisions. </p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>If European
                                                          cyber
                                                          investigators
                                                          are obviously
                                                          all aware of
                                                          the fact that
                                                          WHOIS
                                                          registration
                                                          data can
                                                          sometime be
                                                          inaccurate and
                                                          not up-to-date
                                                          (ICANN
                                                          compliance
                                                          reported that
                                                          for the first
                                                          quarter of
                                                          2015, WHOIS
                                                          inaccuracy
                                                          comprised 74.0
                                                          % of
                                                          complaints),
                                                          in 90% of
                                                          cases they
                                                          will start
                                                          their
                                                          investigations
                                                          with a WHOIS
                                                          lookup. This
                                                          is really the
                                                          first step. </p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>Despite the
                                                          lack of
                                                          accuracy,
                                                          WHOIS
                                                          information is
                                                          useful in so
                                                          many different
                                                          ways. One of
                                                          the first them
                                                          is to make
                                                          correlations
                                                          and link
                                                          pieces of
                                                          information
                                                          obtained
                                                          through other
                                                          means than
                                                          from the
                                                          WHOIS. This
                                                          was the point
                                                          I tried to
                                                          make on
                                                          Tuesday during
                                                          the conference
                                                          call. </p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>Accurate
                                                          and reliable
                                                          WHOIS data
                                                          helps crime
                                                          attribution
                                                          and can save
                                                          precious
                                                          investigation
                                                          time (you can
                                                          rule out wrong
                                                          investigative
                                                          leads). </p>
                                                          <p>It raises
                                                          the bar and
                                                          makes it more
                                                          difficult for
                                                          criminals to
                                                          abuse domain
                                                          names. It
                                                          pushes them to
                                                          resort to more
                                                          complex
                                                          techniques
                                                          such as ID
                                                          theft to
                                                          register
                                                          domains for
                                                          malicious
                                                          purposes.</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>In short,
                                                          for LEA WHOIS
                                                          is certainly
                                                          not the silver
                                                          bullet to
                                                          attribute
                                                          crime on line
                                                          but it is an
                                                          essential tool
                                                          in the tool
                                                          box of law
                                                          enforcement.</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>Best, </p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>Greg</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>-----Original
                                                          Message-----</p>
                                                          <p>From: <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>
                                                          [<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</a>]
                                                          On Behalf Of
                                                          Rob Golding</p>
                                                          <p>Sent: 04
                                                          August 2016
                                                          01:46</p>
                                                          <p>To: RDS PDP
                                                          WG</p>
                                                          <p>Subject:
                                                          Re:
                                                          [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
                                                          Use cases:
                                                          Fundamental,
                                                          Incidental,
                                                          and
                                                          Theoretical</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt;
                                                          Theoretical</p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt;
                                                          ===========</p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt; We
                                                          have seen a
                                                          couple of
                                                          proposed use
                                                          cases that
                                                          seem to be
                                                          ideas </p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt;
                                                          that people
                                                          have for
                                                          useful or
                                                          harmful ways
                                                          that RDS can
                                                          be used, but </p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt;
                                                          that do not
                                                          exist today
                                                          (at least not
                                                          that anyone
                                                          can fully </p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt;
                                                          document).</p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt; </p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt;
                                                          For example,
                                                          there seems to
                                                          be a desire to
                                                          use the RDS as
                                                          a way to </p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt;
                                                          issue warrants
                                                          for
                                                          information
                                                          about
                                                          registrants.
                                                          While this may
                                                          be </p>
                                                          <p>&gt;&gt;
                                                          useful, this
                                                          is not
                                                          possible today
                                                          (even with
                                                          RDAP, I note).</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>It not only
                                                          is possible
                                                          today, it's
                                                          also "common"
                                                          (although
                                                          thankfully not
                                                          frequent)</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>Registrars
                                                          get served
                                                          warrants for
                                                          details about
                                                          registrants,
                                                          and the _only_
                                                          information
                                                          from WHOIS
                                                          that's
                                                          "needed" or
                                                          used for such
                                                          cases is the
                                                          name of the
                                                          Registrar.</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>I had the
                                                          pleasure of
                                                          meeting Chris
                                                          Tarbell,
                                                          ex-FBI Cyber
                                                          Crime, at
                                                          HostingCon
                                                          last week -
                                                          asked about
                                                          WHOIS/domain
                                                          data he said
                                                          "we dont use
                                                          it"</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>Last year
                                                          at the UKNOF
                                                          event in
                                                          Sheffield I
                                                          spent quite
                                                          some time
                                                          talking with
                                                          some amazing
                                                          people from
                                                          the UK
                                                          CyberCrime
                                                          departments -
                                                          asked the same
                                                          questions,
                                                          they confirmed
                                                          that although
                                                          whois _might_
                                                          be looked at
                                                          to see if it
                                                          matches _data
                                                          they already
                                                          have_ for
                                                          confirmation,
                                                          it's not used
                                                          or relied on.</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>Which
                                                          beggars the
                                                          question,
                                                          should
                                                          "LawEnforcement"
                                                          use cases even
                                                          be part of the
                                                          discussions ?</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>Rob</p>
                                                          <p>--</p>
                                                          <p>Rob Golding
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rob.golding@astutium.com" target="_blank">rob.golding@astutium.com</a></p>
                                                          <p>Astutium
                                                          Ltd, Number
                                                          One Poultry,
                                                          London. EC2R
                                                          8JR</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>* domains *
                                                          hosting * vps
                                                          * servers *
                                                          cloud *
                                                          backups *
                                                          ______________________________<wbr>_________________</p>
                                                          <p>gnso-rds-pdp-wg
                                                          mailing list</p>
                                                          <p><a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></p>
                                                          <p><a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
                                                          target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></p>
                                                          <p>*******************</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>DISCLAIMER
                                                          : This message
                                                          is sent in
                                                          confidence and
                                                          is only
                                                          intended for
                                                          the named
                                                          recipient. If
                                                          you receive
                                                          this message
                                                          by mistake,
                                                          you may not
                                                          use, copy,
                                                          distribute or
                                                          forward this
                                                          message, or
                                                          any part of
                                                          its contents
                                                          or rely upon
                                                          the
                                                          information
                                                          contained in
                                                          it.</p>
                                                          <p>Please
                                                          notify the
                                                          sender
                                                          immediately by
                                                          e-mail and
                                                          delete the
                                                          relevant
                                                          e-mails from
                                                          any computer.
                                                          This message
                                                          does not
                                                          constitute a
                                                          commitment by
                                                          Europol unless
                                                          otherwise
                                                          indicated.</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>*******************</p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          <p>______________________________<wbr>_________________</p>
                                                          <p>gnso-rds-pdp-wg
                                                          mailing list</p>
                                                          <p><a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></p>
                                                          <p><a
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                                                          target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></p>
                                                          <p> </p>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                      </div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal">Ayden
                                                        Férdeline</p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="https://community.icann.org/display/gnsosoi/Ayden+F%E9rdeline+SOI"
target="_blank"><span><span
style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;background:white">Statement
                                                          of Interest</span></span></a></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">*******************</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">DISCLAIMER
                                                      : This message is
                                                      sent in confidence
                                                      and is only
                                                      intended for the
                                                      named recipient.
                                                      If you receive
                                                      this message by
                                                      mistake, you may
                                                      not use, copy,
                                                      distribute or
                                                      forward this
                                                      message, or any
                                                      part of its
                                                      contents or rely
                                                      upon the
                                                      information
                                                      contained in it.</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">Please
                                                      notify the sender
                                                      immediately by
                                                      e-mail and delete
                                                      the relevant
                                                      e-mails from any
                                                      computer. This
                                                      message does not
                                                      constitute a
                                                      commitment by
                                                      Europol unless
                                                      otherwise
                                                      indicated.</p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal">*******************
                                                    </p>
                                                  </div>
                                                </blockquote>
                                                <div>
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">*******************</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">DISCLAIMER
                                                  : This message is sent
                                                  in confidence and is
                                                  only intended for the
                                                  named recipient. If
                                                  you receive this
                                                  message by mistake,
                                                  you may not use, copy,
                                                  distribute or forward
                                                  this message, or any
                                                  part of its contents
                                                  or rely upon the
                                                  information contained
                                                  in it.</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">Please
                                                  notify the sender
                                                  immediately by e-mail
                                                  and delete the
                                                  relevant e-mails from
                                                  any computer. This
                                                  message does not
                                                  constitute a
                                                  commitment by Europol
                                                  unless otherwise
                                                  indicated.</p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                              </div>
                                              <div>
                                                <p class="MsoNormal">*******************</p>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr>_________________</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal">gnso-rds-pdp-wg
                                                mailing list</p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"><a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
                                                  target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></p>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">*******************</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">DISCLAIMER
                                          : This message is sent in
                                          confidence and is only
                                          intended for the named
                                          recipient. If you receive this
                                          message by mistake, you may
                                          not use, copy, distribute or
                                          forward this message, or any
                                          part of its contents or rely
                                          upon the information contained
                                          in it.</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">Please
                                          notify the sender immediately
                                          by e-mail and delete the
                                          relevant e-mails from any
                                          computer. This message does
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                                          indicated.</p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">*******************
                                        </p>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <br>
                                  <fieldset></fieldset>
                                  <br>
                                  <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
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</blockquote></div>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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