<div>I’m going to heed Chuck’s advice, but just to respond briefly to your message, Elaine, the number of queries you cited does not necessarily translate into human beings performing these searches. So to your comment that, “clearly people aware of whois are using it” – sure, but what is not clear to me from the figures you have extracted is how many unique individuals we talking about.<br></div><div><br></div><div>- Ayden<br></div><div class="protonmail_signature_block "><div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="protonmail_quote" type="cite"><div>-------- Original Message --------<br></div><div>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement<br></div><div>Local Time: August 24, 2016 10:28 PM<br></div><div>UTC Time: August 24, 2016 9:28 PM<br></div><div>From: elaine@donuts.email<br></div><div>To: <br></div><div>gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org<br></div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr"><div>I love statistics.<br></div><div><div>Registries must self report whois look up data. <a rel="noreferrer" href="https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/registry-reports">https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/registry-reports</a><br></div><div>For example, in .com April 2016 ALONE<br></div><div>“Whois” Queries<b> In Millions</b> 15,000.3 <br></div><div>Web-based Whois 6,960,159<br></div><div><br></div><div>Clearly people aware of whois are using it.<br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 10:57 PM, Greg Shatan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I've taken a deeper look at this 5% (or 8%) "awareness" number that is being bandied about.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">This is a misuse of the data. The question did not ask about awareness of WHOIS. The answer cannot be cited to demonstrate awareness of WHOIS; to do so is misleading. The more I look at the data, the less appropriate it is to cite as if it answers this question. As Mark Twain once said, "There are three kinds of lies. Lies, damned lies, and statistics." <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b>My primary conclusion after looking at the data is that it is useless to prove anything about "awareness of WHOIS." </b><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">My secondary conclusion is that, even if one were to attempt extract some understanding of <u>use</u> of WHOIS (not even awareness, which is impossible), relying solely on the WHOIS subset is inappropriate and likely a significant underestimation of those who used WHOIS.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">First, this is a follow-up question to a users who had "tried to identify who created a particular website" (not "who owns a particular domain name," which would more likely lead to the use of WHOIS, since "who created a particular website" may have nothing to do with the question of domain ownership. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Those who had tried were asked "What did you use to figure this out?" (i.e., figure out who "created a particular website"). It's unclear but possible thaqt only a single answer was allowed, even if the user used multiple tools. The fact that 5% or 8% chose to list their use of WHOIS to see who "created a particular website" (not "who owned a particular domain name") proves nothing about <u>awareness</u> of WHOIS among those who used other tools.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Notably, WHOIS as an answer is grouped with other "Specific Site Search" answers - the rest being Google, Baidu, GoDaddy, DNS records and "other specific site search mentions." (The fact that "WHOIS" is listed as a "specific site search" is enough to make one question the validity of the analysis.)<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Of those who tried to figure who created a particular site, the greatest number turned to search engines -- not surprising among general users, as search is often the primary tool used to find out <u>anything </u> on the Internet. That does not in any way demonstrate their lack of awareness of WHOIS.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Also, the WHOIS answer likely undercounts those who actually used WHOIS. There are other answers that may also refer to WHOIS, some with answers nearly as high as those who expressly identified WHOIS as the "specific site" they searched:<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Domain/IP Address search (5% in 2015, 5% in 2016)<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Online/Internet tools (Unspecified) (0%, 1%)<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Using specific sites that classify/provide information on sites (5%, 2%)<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default">Check registration/if it’s registered/certificate (2%, 2%)<br></div><div class="gmail_default">Research (Unspecified) (4%, 1%)<br></div><div class="gmail_default">GoDaddy (0%, less than 1%)<br></div><div class="gmail_default">TOTAL 16%, 11%<br></div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default">It's impossible to know how many of these refer to WHOIS, but even a minority would double the percentage in each year.<br></div><div class="gmail_default"><br></div><div class="gmail_default">Finally, it's worth noting that the number who answered the same question with the answer "Google" were 10% in 2015 and 14% in 2016. It would be ludicrous to say that this indicates 10% "awareness" of Google in 2015 and 14% "awareness" of Google in 2016. Yet people somehow people feel comfortable applying this characterization to the WHOIS answer. I think this is a strong indication that Mark Twain was right.<br></div></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 12:55 AM, Winterfeldt, Brian J. <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:BWinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com">BWinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><div>+1 Susan also.<br></div><div>
<br></div><div>
<br></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><b style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Brian J. Winterfeldt<u></u><u></u></b><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight">Co-Head of Global Brand Management and Internet Practice<u></u><u></u></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight">Mayer Brown LLP<u></u><u></u></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="color:#000000" class="colour"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight"><a href="mailto:bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com">bwinterfeldt@mayerbrown.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="color:#000000" class="colour"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight"><a>1999
K Street, NW</a><u></u><u></u></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="color:#000000" class="colour"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight"><a>Washington,
DC 20006-1101</a><u></u><u></u></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="color:#000000" class="colour"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight"><a href="tel:202.263.3284">202.263.3284</a> direct
dial<u></u><u></u></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="color:#000000" class="colour"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight"><a href="tel:202.830.0330">202.830.0330</a> fax<u></u><u></u></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight"> </span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="color:#000000" class="colour"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight"><a>1221
Avenue of the Americas</a><u></u><u></u></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="color:#000000" class="colour"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight"><a>New
York, New York 10020-1001</a><u></u><u></u></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="color:#000000" class="colour"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0)" class="highlight"><a href="tel:212.506.2345">212.506.2345</a> direct
dial</span></span><br></p></div><div><div><div><div><br></div><div>On Aug 23, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Kiran Malancharuvil via gnso-rds-pdp-wg <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div>
<br></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><span>+1 Susan. </span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span>Kiran Malancharuvil</span><br></div><div>
<span>Policy Counselor</span><br></div><div>
<span>MarkMonitor</span><br></div><div>
<span><a href="tel:415.222.8318" value="+14152228318">415.222.8318</a> (t)</span><br></div><div>
<span><a href="tel:415.419.9138" value="+14154199138">415.419.9138</a> (m)</span><br></div><div>
<span><a rel="noreferrer" href="http://www.markmonitor.com">www.markmonitor.com</a> </span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span>-----Original Message-----</span><br></div><div>
<span>From: <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounce<wbr>s@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of Susan Kawaguchi</span><br></div><div>
<span>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2016 9:35 AM</span><br></div><div>
<span>To: Volker Greimann; <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br></div><div>
<span>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] For WG Review - Redlined Problem Statement</span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span>Volker, </span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span>I completely disagree with your statement most registrants do not even what whois isŠ. I might agree with most internet users do not know what registration data is or where to find it but a good portion of domain names are registered to commercial entities
who completely understand the whois and use it daily for domain name management.</span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span>I am sure you receive inquiries about whois from some registrants but I would guess the vast majority of registrants understand whois.</span><br></div><div>
<span>Susan Kawaguchi</span><br></div><div>
<span>Domain Name Manager</span><br></div><div>
<span>Facebook Legal Dept.</span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<span>On 8/23/16, 9:27 AM, "<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann<wbr>.org</a> on behalf of Volker Greimann" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann<wbr>.org</a> on behalf of
<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:</span><br></div><div>
<span></span><br></div><div>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><span>I tend to agree. Most registrants do not even know what whois is...</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Volker</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Am 23.08.2016 um 18:17 schrieb Rob Golding:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Are you suggesting that registrants do not have a vested interest in
</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>an</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>RDS</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>system?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Correct - I believe they have a vested interest in there not being an
</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>RDS system</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Rob</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>---</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="noreferrer" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_ant">https://urldefense.proofpoint.<wbr>com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ava<wbr>st.com_ant</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>ivi </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>rus&d=DQIF-g&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd<wbr>41b3MUw&r=gvEx8xF7ynrYQ7wShqEr<wbr>-w&m=urT5C</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Zcn </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>XwGvl43p6PPaxa7CQx8mZT7Zsafsbq<wbr>AkLcc&s=zEmZ1lTVED4qGJFCLfh1cg<wbr>rCvpUl5xhz</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>j7Y</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>HszgNSyg&e=</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="noreferrer" href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mail">https://urldefense.proofpoint.<wbr>com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.ican<wbr>n.org_mail</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>man</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_listinfo_gnso-2Drds-2Dpdp-2Dw<wbr>g&d=DQIF-g&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41<wbr>b3MUw&r=gv</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Ex8</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>xF7ynrYQ7wShqEr-w&m=urT5CZcnXw<wbr>Gvl43p6PPaxa7CQx8mZT7ZsafsbqAk<wbr>Lcc&s=mQl2</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>M12 BbhsfrqiFs2wEm0WYIxRuKOmOPwf3f<wbr>JvhD6w&e=</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>--</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Volker A. Greimann</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>- Rechtsabteilung -</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Key-Systems GmbH</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Im Oberen Werk 1</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>66386 St. Ingbert</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Tel.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" value="+4968949396901">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Fax.: <a href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" value="+4968949396851">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Web: <a rel="noreferrer" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> /
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