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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Otieno,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Am I correct that in the situation you describe you are literally the registrant with the registrar and there is no reseller relationship from an ICANN perspective? Any relationship
you have with your client is strictly between you and the client.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>O. Antony<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 04, 2017 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] New Year Challenge<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>This is the real situation as it is occurring in the domain market.<br>
I personally do register domain on behalf of my clients and in most cases, the whois records displays my data as the domain registrant.<br>
Most ccTLD registrars prefer this model since it boosts consumption of the ccTLDs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b>Otieno Antony,</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style="color:#5133AB">Secretary | Internet Society Kenya Chapter</span></b><br>
<b><span style="color:#5133AB">Fax:</span> </b> 086 265 5186 <b><span style="color:black">| Mobile: </span></b><span style="color:black">+254 20 4402979<b> | Skype: </b>otieno.antony</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style="color:black">Profile:</span></b><span style="color:black"> </span><a href="https://about.me/otienoantony"><span style="color:black">https</span></a><a href="https://about.me/otienoantony"><span style="color:black">://about.me/</span></a><a href="https://about.me/otienoantony"><span style="color:black">otienoantony</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 4 Jan 2017 18:51, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p>Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>we have hundreds of resellers who do not self-identify as such. They open end customer accounts and register domains for others, as their agents. No reseller agreements are in place in such cases as we have no way of knowing. Consider for example web-developers
registering domains for their clients with a registrar. Or lawyers registering domains for their clients.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I am using the term agent loosely in the sense of: "an entity doing things at the request of another entity - whatever their contractual relationship may be".
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Am 04.01.2017 um 16:31 schrieb Greg Shatan:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Volker,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">What types of cases are you thinking of? And how do reseller agreements in these cases reflect that difference?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In either case, are we talking about a true legal "principal-agent" relationship? (Defined as "A consensual relationship created by contract or by law where one party, the principal, grants
authority for another party, the agent, to act on behalf of and under the control of the principal to deal with a third party. An agency relationship is fiduciary in nature [to the benefit of the principal], and the actions and words of an agent exchanged
with a third party bind the principal."? Or are we using the term "agent" more loosely?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Thanks for any light you can shed on the topic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 5:49 AM, Volker Greimann <<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
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<p>This is not always the case. Many resellers are more like agents of the registrant than agents of the registrar.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Volker<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 03.01.2017 um 23:51 schrieb Alan Greenberg:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">How resellers work is relatively straight forward. They are agents working on behalf of a registrar. The handle the transaction and often ongoing contact with the registrant. Some registrars have no resellers, others some resellers, and
some registrars only work through resellers and have no direct registratns. Of course, you may find that a reseller is really a subsidiary of the registrar (or in some other business relationship with them other than purely a reseller).<br>
<br>
Until relatively recently, ICANN took the position that since they had no contract with resellers, they had no control over what resellers did. In more recent RAAs, there are explicit clauses which require that if a registrar delegates anything to resellers,
that they must ensure that the reseller fulfill any obligations that the registrar would have if they were dealing with the registrant directly. Past RAAs only covereed some of these requirements but my recollection is that the current RAA pretty much puts
a registrant in the same situation regardless of whether they are dealing with the registrar directly or a reseller (I may be wrong about that, but that is my recollection).<br>
<br>
Of course, it is up to the registrar to ensure that these obligations are followed, or ICANN compliance to identify places where they may not be doing so.<br>
<br>
Is that any clearer?<br>
<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 03/01/2017 02:56 PM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt">Happy New Year all! You are probably going to hate me because I am going to slow us down again. The problem is that we frame the discussion and thinking so very differently, depending on the expertise that
we bring to this debate, that understanding the minutiae is very important. For instance on a recent call I questioned whether an individual needed to look at WHOIS to see who their registrar is, and was promptly corrected in this matter. Naive person that
I am, I had never plumbed the depths of the reseller business, and I am not finding much useful information on the ICANN site that will help me do this (please help and point me to how this happens, what kind of contracts pass on obligations, how this is interpreted
under DP law, why I cannot find my registrar on any of the lists of ICANN accredited registrars, consumer protection obligations under US law, how this works in the privacy proxy business etc.). IN my responses to the questionnaire, I have pointed out that
it is the registrars and registries or their agents that collect/generate the Thin data. The proposed RDS, which at the moment is still protean, is not an entity, cannot collect etc, but is instead a display mechanism or automated disclosure instrument.
So framing this in terms of collection is in my view quite misleading, unless I am totally misunderstanding the poll (always possible).
<br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt">Anyway if anyone can help me understand how resellers work I would be most grateful. It would probably also save us a pile of time if I understood it better, if that can possibly incentivize some brave soul.....<br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt">cheers Stephanie Perrin<br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
On 2017-01-03 10:31, Gomes, Chuck wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">A few weeks ago one of our WG members said something to me that I think might be a good challenge for many of us as we begin 2017: “I think people (including me) need to snap back to attention. I think we lost
focus because of the incredible amount of lost traffic on minutiae that was so hard for non-ICANN insiders to follow.”<br>
<br>
If this applies to you, I hope you will respond.<br>
<br>
I can tell you that no one gets more frustrated with minutiae than me. I have just been at this for so long that I have learned minutiae for one person is important to someone else so I have realized that I have to have a lot of patience. Still, I often find
myself wanting to push faster ahead and the leadership team has to pull me back.<br>
<br>
It has taken us about 11 months to get to where we are and it may seem like we have made very little progress but I am hopeful that we have laid some building blocks that will make our work ahead easier. We need to all keep in mind that the ICANN community
has been grappling with Whois (RDS) issues for most of its 18-year existence with very minimal progress. If we are going to change that pattern, we will have to be patient and persistent.<br>
<br>
As we ended 2016 we reached the critical deliberation stage of Work Plan Phase 1. None of us should think that that will be easy or quick; it won’t be. But I am confident that we will start to see more concrete results of our efforts.<br>
<br>
I encourage all of you to start off this year by completing the poll that was distributed last week. You have until Friday of this week to complete it. Here is the link to the poll:
<a href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/V3CWZBL" target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/V3CWZBL</a> .<br>
<br>
Happy New Year.<br>
<br>
Chuck<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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</blockquote>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>--------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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