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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Thanks very much
everyone for this discussion, and Steve for this clarification.
I think you will have guessed by now (since I am somewhat
predictable) that I don't find the arrangements, whether
formal or informal, to be particularly beneficial to the uninformed
end user. It is not really clear to me that ICANN has provided
enough language in the RAA to ensure that contractual
obligations which are (theoretically) passed on to the reseller
are enforced, other than by the good guys who show up at
ICANN. It is also becoming crystal clear that the "dumb" user
may not be dealing with someone who takes his/her fiduciary
responsibilities seriously, particularly with respect to the
retention of the domain. If I let someone register my small
business name for me, would I necessarily know that it was
registered in a resellers name? IF the reseller gets an offer,
even a modest one, to buy the name, how confident can I be
that my registrar/reseller/hosting company will not let it go
to the higher bidder?</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Finally on this topic,
was the code of conduct mentioned in the RAA ever finalized (I
should know this but i don't, sorry....) And would that code
of conduct include duties of transparency to the end user?</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">cheers Stephanie</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">PS and apologies for
this digression, but I am confident that I am not the only one
out there who does not understand the arcana of the business
in the kind of depth you folks do, and it is important that we
have a better understanding of how the market actually works.
</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-01-04 11:45, Metalitz, Steven
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:E5B4A2ED43DFAE4F9E710FA54FEF8F6260361511@LAEX02.MSK.local"
type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Accepting
that the label can be used more broadly in common parlance,
for purposes of this Working Group, it’s clearer to stick to
the legal definition, which might answer some of Stephanie’s
original questions. So for example, resellers under the RAA
take on essentially all the obligations of registrars,
including obligations regarding “collecting registration
data about the Registered Name Holders” (included within the
definition of “Registrar Services”). Section 3.12 of the
2013 RAA sets this out rather comprehensively:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN">3.12
<u>Obligations Related to Provision of Registrar Services by
Third Parties</u>. Registrar is responsible for the
provision of Registrar Services for all Registered Names
that Registrar sponsors being performed in compliance with
this Agreement, regardless of whether the Registrar Services
are provided by Registrar or a third party, including a
Reseller. Registrar must enter into written agreements with
all of its Resellers that enable Registrar to comply with
and perform all of its obligations under this Agreement. In
addition, Registrar must ensure that:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="3.12.1"></a><span
style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN">3.12.1 Its Resellers do not display the ICANN or
ICANN-Accredited Registrar logo, or otherwise represent
themselves as Accredited by ICANN, unless they have written
permission from ICANN to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="3.12.2"></a><span
style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN">3.12.2 Any registration agreement used by reseller
shall include all registration agreement provisions and
notices required by the ICANN Registrar Accreditation
Agreement and any ICANN Consensus Policies, and shall
identify the sponsoring registrar or provide a means for
identifying the sponsoring registrar, such as a link to the
InterNIC Whois lookup service.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="3.12.3"></a><span
style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN">3.12.3 Its Resellers identify the sponsoring
registrar upon inquiry from the customer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="3.12.4"></a><span
style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN">3.12.4 Its Resellers comply with any ICANN-adopted
Specification or Policy that establishes a program for
accreditation of individuals or entities who provide proxy
and privacy registration services (a "Proxy Accreditation
Program"). Among other features, the Proxy Accreditation
Program may require that: (i) proxy and privacy registration
services may only be provided in respect of domain name
registrations by individuals or entities Accredited by ICANN
pursuant to such Proxy Accreditation Program; and (ii)
Registrar shall prohibit Resellers from knowingly accepting
registrations from any provider of proxy and privacy
registration services that is not Accredited by ICANN
pursuant the Proxy Accreditation Program. Until such time as
the Proxy Accreditation Program is established, Registrar
shall require Resellers to comply with the Specification on
Privacy and Proxy Registrations attached hereto.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="3.12.5"></a><span
style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN">3.12.5 Its Resellers' customers are provided with
a link to an ICANN webpage detailing registrant educational
information, as detailed in subsection 3.16 below.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="3.12.6"></a><span
style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN">3.12.6 In the event Registrar learns that a
Reseller is causing Registrar to be in breach of any of the
provisions of this Agreement, Registrar shall take
reasonable steps to enforce its agreement with such Reseller
so as to cure and prevent further instances of
non-compliance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="3.12.7"></a><span
style="font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN">3.12.7 Its Resellers shall publish on their
website(s) and/or provide a link to the Registrants'
Benefits and Responsibilities Specification attached hereto
and shall not take any action inconsistent with the
corresponding provisions of this Agreement or applicable
law.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:15.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333"
lang="EN">Registrar shall use commercially reasonable
efforts to enforce compliance with the provisions of the
agreement between Registrar and any Reseller that relate to
the provisions of Registrar Services.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Additionally,
under the Registrar Information Specification, registrars
must provide to ICANN a list of all its known resellers,
although it is not required to make this public. l<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E"><img
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:part8.22759CAF.CBF3CB8C@mail.utoronto.ca"
alt="image001" height="41" width="124"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E">Steven
J. Metalitz
</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">|<b>
</b></span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E">Partner,
through his professional corporation<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">T:
202.355.7902
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">|</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:met@msk.com"><span
style="color:black">met@msk.com</span></a></span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E">Mitchell
Silberberg & Knupp</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></span><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E">LLP</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#84162E">
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">|</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#84162E">
<b><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.msk.com/"><span
style="color:#84162E">www.msk.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></b></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">1818
N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><u><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:gray">THE
INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS
INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE OF
THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS.</span></u></b><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:gray">
THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION,
AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE
READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU
ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE, DISSEMINATION,
FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE IS STRICTLY
PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY BY REPLY E-MAIL
OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE AND ALL
ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:gray"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Volker Greimann [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 04, 2017 11:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Metalitz, Steven; Greg Shatan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> RDS PDP WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] New Year Challenge<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Hi Steven,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>while not reselling in the meaning of the RAA (I know the
definition, I worked with ICANN to write it), they are still
resellers in the broader term of the word, and in the eyes of
many not that deep into the legal definition in the RAA.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Volker<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 04.01.2017 um 17:10 schrieb Metalitz,
Steven:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Volker,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
entities you describe do not sound like resellers within
the meaning of the RAA:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN">1.24 A "Reseller" is a person or entity that
participates in Registrar's distribution channel for
domain name registrations (a) pursuant to an agreement,
arrangement or understanding with Registrar or (b) with
Registrar's actual knowledge, provides some or all
Registrar Services, including collecting registration data
about Registered Name Holders, submitting that data to
Registrar, or facilitating the entry of the registration
agreement between the Registrar and the Registered Name
Holder.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E"><img
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part8.22759CAF.CBF3CB8C@mail.utoronto.ca"
alt="image001" height="41" border="0" width="124"></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E">Steven
J. Metalitz
</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">|<b>
</b></span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E">Partner,
through his professional corporation</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">T:
202.355.7902 |
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:met@msk.com"><span
style="color:black">met@msk.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E">Mitchell
Silberberg & Knupp</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#88162E">LLP</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#84162E">
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">|</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#84162E">
<b><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.msk.com/"><span
style="color:#84162E">www.msk.com</span></a></b></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">1818
N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><u><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:gray">THE
INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS
INTENDED ONLY FOR THE PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL USE
OF THE DESIGNATED RECIPIENTS.</span></u></b><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:gray">
THIS MESSAGE MAY BE AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT COMMUNICATION,
AND AS SUCH IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL. IF THE
READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT AN INTENDED RECIPIENT,
YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY REVIEW, USE,
DISSEMINATION, FORWARDING OR COPYING OF THIS MESSAGE
IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. PLEASE NOTIFY US IMMEDIATELY
BY REPLY E-MAIL OR TELEPHONE, AND DELETE THE ORIGINAL
MESSAGE AND ALL ATTACHMENTS FROM YOUR SYSTEM. THANK
YOU.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Volker Greimann<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 04, 2017 10:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Shatan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> RDS PDP WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] New Year
Challenge</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>we have hundreds of resellers who do not self-identify as
such. They open end customer accounts and register domains
for others, as their agents. No reseller agreements are in
place in such cases as we have no way of knowing. Consider
for example web-developers registering domains for their
clients with a registrar. Or lawyers registering domains for
their clients.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I am using the term agent loosely in the sense of: "an
entity doing things at the request of another entity -
whatever their contractual relationship may be".
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 04.01.2017 um 16:31 schrieb Greg
Shatan:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Volker,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">What
types of cases are you thinking of? And how do
reseller agreements in these cases reflect that
difference?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">In
either case, are we talking about a true legal
"principal-agent" relationship? (Defined as "A
consensual relationship created by contract or by
law where one party, the principal, grants authority
for another party, the agent, to act on behalf of
and under the control of the principal to deal with
a third party. An agency relationship is fiduciary
in nature [to the benefit of the principal], and the
actions and words of an agent exchanged with a third
party bind the principal."? Or are we using the
term "agent" more loosely?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Thanks
for any light you can shed on the topic.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 5:49 AM,
Volker Greimann <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>This is not always the case. Many resellers are
more like agents of the registrant than agents of
the registrar.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Volker<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 03.01.2017 um 23:51
schrieb Alan Greenberg:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">How resellers work is
relatively straight forward. They are agents
working on behalf of a registrar. The handle
the transaction and often ongoing contact with
the registrant. Some registrars have no
resellers, others some resellers, and some
registrars only work through resellers and
have no direct registratns. Of course, you may
find that a reseller is really a subsidiary of
the registrar (or in some other business
relationship with them other than purely a
reseller).<br>
<br>
Until relatively recently, ICANN took the
position that since they had no contract with
resellers, they had no control over what
resellers did. In more recent RAAs, there are
explicit clauses which require that if a
registrar delegates anything to resellers,
that they must ensure that the reseller
fulfill any obligations that the registrar
would have if they were dealing with the
registrant directly. Past RAAs only covereed
some of these requirements but my recollection
is that the current RAA pretty much puts a
registrant in the same situation regardless of
whether they are dealing with the registrar
directly or a reseller (I may be wrong about
that, but that is my recollection).<br>
<br>
Of course, it is up to the registrar to ensure
that these obligations are followed, or ICANN
compliance to identify places where they may
not be doing so.<br>
<br>
Is that any clearer?<br>
<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 03/01/2017 02:56 PM, Stephanie Perrin
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt">Happy New Year all!
You are probably going to hate me because I
am going to slow us down again. The problem
is that we frame the discussion and thinking
so very differently, depending on the
expertise that we bring to this debate, that
understanding the minutiae is very
important. For instance on a recent call I
questioned whether an individual needed to
look at WHOIS to see who their registrar is,
and was promptly corrected in this matter.
Naive person that I am, I had never plumbed
the depths of the reseller business, and I
am not finding much useful information on
the ICANN site that will help me do this
(please help and point me to how this
happens, what kind of contracts pass on
obligations, how this is interpreted under
DP law, why I cannot find my registrar on
any of the lists of ICANN accredited
registrars, consumer protection obligations
under US law, how this works in the privacy
proxy business etc.). IN my responses to
the questionnaire, I have pointed out that
it is the registrars and registries or their
agents that collect/generate the Thin data.
The proposed RDS, which at the moment is
still protean, is not an entity, cannot
collect etc, but is instead a display
mechanism or automated disclosure
instrument. So framing this in terms of
collection is in my view quite misleading,
unless I am totally misunderstanding the
poll (always possible).
<br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt">Anyway if anyone
can help me understand how resellers work I
would be most grateful. It would probably
also save us a pile of time if I understood
it better, if that can possibly incentivize
some brave soul.....<br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt">cheers Stephanie
Perrin<br>
</span><br>
<br>
<br>
On 2017-01-03 10:31, Gomes, Chuck wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">A few weeks ago
one of our WG members said something to me
that I think might be a good challenge for
many of us as we begin 2017: “I think people
(including me) need to snap back to attention.
I think we lost focus because of the
incredible amount of lost traffic on minutiae
that was so hard for non-ICANN insiders to
follow.”<br>
<br>
If this applies to you, I hope you will
respond.<br>
<br>
I can tell you that no one gets more
frustrated with minutiae than me. I have just
been at this for so long that I have learned
minutiae for one person is important to
someone else so I have realized that I have to
have a lot of patience. Still, I often find
myself wanting to push faster ahead and the
leadership team has to pull me back.<br>
<br>
It has taken us about 11 months to get to
where we are and it may seem like we have made
very little progress but I am hopeful that we
have laid some building blocks that will make
our work ahead easier. We need to all keep in
mind that the ICANN community has been
grappling with Whois (RDS) issues for most of
its 18-year existence with very minimal
progress. If we are going to change that
pattern, we will have to be patient and
persistent.<br>
<br>
As we ended 2016 we reached the critical
deliberation stage of Work Plan Phase 1. None
of us should think that that will be easy or
quick; it won’t be. But I am confident that
we will start to see more concrete results of
our efforts.<br>
<br>
I encourage all of you to start off this year
by completing the poll that was distributed
last week. You have until Friday of this week
to complete it. Here is the link to the
poll:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/V3CWZBL"
target="_blank">https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/V3CWZBL</a>
.<br>
<br>
Happy New Year.<br>
<br>
Chuck<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>--------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>- legal department -<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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