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    <p>Hi Greg,</p>

    <p>we have hundreds of resellers who do not self-identify as such.

      They open end customer accounts and register domains for others,

      as their agents. No reseller agreements are in place in such cases

      as we have no way of knowing. Consider for example web-developers

      registering domains for their clients with a registrar. Or lawyers

      registering domains for their clients. <br>

    </p>

    <p>I am using the term agent loosely in the sense of: "an entity

      doing things at the request of another entity - whatever their

      contractual relationship may be". <br>

    </p>

    <br>

    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 04.01.2017 um 16:31 schrieb Greg

      Shatan:<br>

    </div>

    <blockquote

cite="mid:CA+aOHUSLruSfx6rY4axvF7tMU88iEq=Nq0_fqqq=_WpBV9tTvA@mail.gmail.com"

      type="cite">

      <div dir="ltr">

        <div class="gmail_default"

          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Volker,</div>

        <div class="gmail_default"

          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>

        </div>

        <div class="gmail_default"

          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">What types of cases are

          you thinking of?  And how do reseller agreements in these

          cases reflect that difference?</div>

        <div class="gmail_default"

          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>

        </div>

        <div class="gmail_default"

          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In either case, are we

          talking about a true legal "principal-agent" relationship?

          (Defined as "A consensual relationship created by contract or

          by law where one party, the principal, grants authority for

          another party, the agent, to act on behalf of and under the

          control of the principal to deal with a third party. An agency

          relationship is fiduciary in nature [to the benefit of the

          principal], and the actions and words of an agent exchanged

          with a third party bind the principal."?  Or are we using the

          term "agent" more loosely?</div>

        <div class="gmail_default"

          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>

        </div>

        <div class="gmail_default"

          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Thanks for any light

          you can shed on the topic.</div>

        <div class="gmail_default"

          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>

        </div>

        <div class="gmail_default"

          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>

      </div>

      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>

        <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 5:49 AM, Volker

          Greimann <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"

              href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>&gt;</span>

          wrote:<br>

          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0

            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">

              <p>This is not always the case. Many resellers are more

                like agents of the registrant than agents of the

                registrar.</p>

              <p>Best,</p>

              <p>Volker<br>

              </p>

              <div>

                <div class="h5"> <br>

                  <div class="m_3441130777942343059moz-cite-prefix">Am

                    03.01.2017 um 23:51 schrieb Alan Greenberg:<br>

                  </div>

                  <blockquote type="cite"> How resellers work is

                    relatively straight forward. They are agents working

                    on behalf of a registrar. The handle the transaction

                    and often ongoing contact with the registrant. Some

                    registrars have no resellers, others some resellers,

                    and some registrars only work through resellers and

                    have no direct registratns. Of course, you may find

                    that a reseller is really a subsidiary of the

                    registrar (or in some other business relationship

                    with them other than purely a reseller).<br>

                     <br>

                    Until relatively recently, ICANN took the position

                    that since they had no contract with resellers, they

                    had no control over what resellers did. In more

                    recent RAAs, there are explicit clauses which

                    require that if a registrar delegates anything to

                    resellers, that they must ensure that the reseller

                    fulfill any obligations that the registrar would

                    have if they were dealing with the registrant

                    directly. Past RAAs only covereed some of these

                    requirements but my recollection is that the current

                    RAA pretty much puts a registrant in the same

                    situation regardless of whether they are dealing

                    with the registrar directly or a reseller (I may be

                    wrong about that, but that is my recollection).<br>

                    <br>

                    Of course, it is up to the registrar to ensure that

                    these obligations are followed, or ICANN compliance

                    to identify places where they may not be doing so.<br>

                    <br>

                    Is that any clearer?<br>

                    <br>

                    Alan<br>

                    <br>

                    <br>

                    <br>

                    At 03/01/2017 02:56 PM, Stephanie Perrin wrote:<br>

                    <br>

                    <blockquote type="cite"

                      class="m_3441130777942343059cite"><font size="1">Happy

                        New Year all!  You are probably going to hate me

                        because I am going to slow us down again.  The

                        problem is that we frame the discussion and

                        thinking so very differently, depending on the

                        expertise that we bring to this debate, that

                        understanding the minutiae is very important. 

                        For instance on  a recent call I questioned

                        whether an individual needed to look at WHOIS to

                        see who their registrar is, and was promptly

                        corrected in this matter.  Naive person that I

                        am, I had never plumbed the depths of the

                        reseller business, and I am not finding much

                        useful information on the ICANN site that will

                        help me do this (please help and point me to how

                        this happens, what kind of contracts pass on

                        obligations, how this is interpreted under DP

                        law, why I cannot find my registrar on any of

                        the lists of ICANN accredited registrars,

                        consumer protection obligations under US law,

                        how this works in the privacy proxy business

                        etc.).  IN my responses to the questionnaire, I

                        have pointed out that it is the registrars and

                        registries or their agents that collect/generate

                        the Thin data.  The proposed RDS, which at the

                        moment is still protean, is not an entity,

                        cannot collect etc, but is instead a display

                        mechanism or automated disclosure instrument. 

                        So framing this in terms of collection is in my

                        view quite misleading, unless I am totally

                        misunderstanding the poll (always possible). <br>

                      </font><br>

                      <font size="1">Anyway if anyone can help me

                        understand how resellers work I would be most

                        grateful.  It would probably also save us a pile

                        of time if I understood it better, if that can

                        possibly incentivize some brave soul.....<br>

                      </font><br>

                      <font size="1">cheers Stephanie Perrin<br>

                      </font><br>

                      <br>

                      <br>

                      On 2017-01-03 10:31, Gomes, Chuck wrote:<br>

                      <blockquote type="cite"

                        class="m_3441130777942343059cite">A few weeks

                        ago one of our WG members said something to me

                        that I think might be a good challenge for many

                        of us as we begin 2017:  “I think people

                        (including me) need to snap back to attention. I

                        think we lost focus because of the incredible

                        amount of lost traffic on minutiae that was so

                        hard for non-ICANN insiders to follow.”<br>

                         <br>

                        If this applies to you, I hope you will respond.<br>

                         <br>

                        I can tell you that no one gets more frustrated

                        with minutiae than me.  I have just been at this

                        for so long that I have learned minutiae for one

                        person is important to someone else so I have

                        realized that I have to have a lot of patience. 

                        Still, I often find myself wanting to push

                        faster ahead and the leadership team has to pull

                        me back.<br>

                         <br>

                        It has taken us about 11 months to get to where

                        we are and it may seem like we have made very

                        little progress but I am hopeful that we have

                        laid some building blocks that will make our

                        work ahead easier.  We need to all keep in mind

                        that the ICANN community has been grappling with

                        Whois (RDS) issues for most of its 18-year

                        existence with very minimal progress.  If we are

                        going to change that pattern, we will have to be

                        patient and persistent.<br>

                         <br>

                        As we ended 2016 we reached the critical

                        deliberation stage of Work Plan Phase 1. None of

                        us should think that that will be easy or quick;

                        it won’t be.  But I am confident that we will

                        start to see more concrete results of our

                        efforts.<br>

                         <br>

                        I encourage all of you to start off this year by

                        completing the poll that was distributed last

                        week.  You have until Friday of this week to

                        complete it.  Here is the link to the poll:  <a

                          moz-do-not-send="true"

                          href="https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/V3CWZBL"

                          target="_blank"> https://www.surveymonkey.com/<wbr>r/V3CWZBL</a>

                        .<br>

                         <br>

                        Happy New Year.<br>

                         <br>

                        Chuck<br>

                        <br>

                        <br>

                        <br>

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    </div></div><pre class="m_3441130777942343059moz-signature" cols="72">-- 

Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann

- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

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------------------------------<wbr>--------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann

- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

66386 St. Ingbert

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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 