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    <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">It is your inner Canadian
          coming out there Greg, doubtless a harbinger of further
          agreement to come....<span class="moz-smiley-s5"><span>:-D</span></span><br>
        </font></font></p>
    <p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">SP</font></font><br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-01-19 12:35, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CA+aOHUR=E4FVpD-n6h_=5vb99uKvcECqL9pVhLmx2v0-5GEYUw@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I never thought I would
          agree with Stephanie on a privacy-related matter.... 😂</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">But I do this time.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 11:44 AM,
          Gomes, Chuck <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
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                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">Thanks
                    for your thoughtful contributions to this discussion
                    Stephanie.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">Chuck</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    name="m_7186021843802509145__MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext"> </span></a></p>
                <span></span>
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                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:windowtext">
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
                          target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>
                        [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
                          target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephanie Perrin<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 18, 2017 2:58 PM<br>
                        <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                          target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                        <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
                        FW: Updated: Mp3, Attendance, AC Chat for
                        Next-Gen RDS PDP WG on Wednesday, 18 January
                        2017 at 06:00 UTC</span></p>
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                <div>
                  <div class="h5">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">I will do my best to make
                        the call next week, but am travelling so may not
                        manage it.  Since I am the one querying the
                        suggestion that protecting the data and the
                        names of the individuals under the rubric of
                        privacy is a wee bit off base, believing instead
                        that people should be accountable for what they
                        are putting in their polling data, here is my
                        view, for what it is worth.</span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">1.  ICANN is fundamentally
                        an open, transparent multistakeholder
                        organization where pdps are open to all.  There
                        is an expectation that there will be robust
                        debate and that people will be accountable for
                        the views they wish to express.  IF a person
                        wishes to watch what is happening and not
                        participate, they can monitor and thereby not be
                        forced to express a view.  Participation in the
                        working group should mean that one's
                        expectations of privacy in terms of opinions
                        expressed is very limited.  I would like to hear
                        the arguments for such an opinion, if anyone has
                        advanced them.</span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">2.  In this respect, if an
                        organization sends a representative to attend a
                        pdp and they do not have the authority to speak
                        for the organization without vetting/checking,
                        they have a number of options:  a) omit the
                        survey b) fill it out in their own name with
                        caveats that they do not represent the
                        organization c) get the survey questions and
                        consult on the answers.  I don't really think it
                        is acceptable for organizations to anonymously
                        fill out the survey, just as I don't buy the
                        privacy argument from individuals.</span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">3.  The data is useful to
                        those of us who are trying to understand where
                        people are coming from.  As I have said numerous
                        times, we all view these matters from our own
                        perspectives and knowledge base.  I am trying to
                        understand the degree to which people still do
                        not understand privacy concepts, which I think I
                        can detect from their answers.  (others may
                        wonder why I still don't understand how the RDS
                        works, fair enough says I!  CHeck my data, it
                        might help you detect necessary educational
                        opportunities...)  I am also interested in the
                        variance across questions, cumulative totals per
                        SG, etc etc). 
                      </span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">4. At a rather fundamental
                        level, data that is used by us even to form
                        rough concepts of concensus should be accessible
                        to all in my view.  This is very controversial
                        topic which has caused considerable conflict
                        over the years, let us try to minimize any
                        potential for later questions or distrust by
                        ensuring all data is available.</span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">There are ways around this
                        problem of disclosure vs non-disclosure.</span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">1.  Inform people that
                        polling data will be available.  Forwarned. 
                      </span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">2.  RElease data minus the
                        name.  However, folks will be guessing who is
                        from what constituency, and frankly we must have
                        the constituency data.  Normally for disclosure
                        of PI for people in groups we go by the rule of
                        4.....rarely are there 4 NCSG folks filling out
                        the polls, so you can identify us anyway, this
                        may be different for other groups.  I think this
                        one is a non-starter but there it is.</span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">3.  Seek consent.  As
                        discussed above, I don't think the privacy
                        arguments hold water; it is bad policy to seek
                        consent on something that you could not /should
                        not protect in the first place.  Also a
                        non-starter in my view, but there it is.</span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">Again, I hope to make the
                        call next week but wanted to start off this
                        discussion on the list in case I don't make it.</span></p>
                    <p><span
                        style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lucida
                        Grande&quot;,serif">Cheers STephanie</span></p>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">On 2017-01-18 10:45, Gomes,
                        Chuck wrote:</p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote
                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">For
                          those of you who were unable to attend this
                          meeting, I encourage you to listen to the MP3
                          recording and/or review the transcript as well
                          as the notes that Marika sent right after the
                          meeting.  We made quite a lot of progress; we
                          discussed all of the remaining proposed
                          purposes for the collection of thin data and
                          there were no objections from anyone on the
                          call to the conclusion that each of the
                          purposes are legitimate for the collection of
                          thin data.</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The
                          third purpose, where we started for this
                          meeting, is Domain Name Certification.  We
                          spent quite a bit of time talking about this. 
                          For those who feel that you do not understand
                          this purpose fully, at about 14:50 into the
                          call we had what I thought was a very good
                          discussion designed to make sure everyone
                          understands Domain Name Certification, so I
                          encourage you to at least listen to that
                          portion and the discussion following where we
                          discussed whether it was an acceptable
                          purpose.  You will note that some thick data
                          elements were also mentioned but we did not
                          make any conclusions regarding thick data.</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Once
                          we finished our deliberation on Domain Name
                          Certification, there was just minimal
                          discussion on the other remaining purposes so
                          you may not find the balance of the recording
                          very informative.</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Near
                          the very end of the recording we alerted
                          everyone to an agenda topic we will have next
                          week about whether raw poll data should be
                          shared with the WG and, if so, in what way. 
                          Those not on the call may benefit from
                          listening to that discussion in preparation
                          for next week.</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Happy
                          listening.</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Chuck</span></p>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                      <div>
                        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
                                target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>
                              [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"
                                target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
                              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nathalie Peregrine<br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 18, 2017
                              6:57 AM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                                target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
                              <b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org"
                                target="_blank">gnso-secs@icann.org</a><br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]
                              [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Updated: Mp3,
                              Attendance, AC Chat for Next-Gen RDS PDP
                              WG on Wednesday, 18 January 2017 at 06:00
                              UTC</span></p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                              style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">With
                              updated apologies</span></b></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
                        1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                              style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:
                            </span></b><span
                            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">"<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:owner-gnso-secs@icann.org"
                              target="_blank">owner-gnso-secs@icann.org</a>"
                            &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:owner-gnso-secs@icann.org"
                              target="_blank">owner-gnso-secs@icann.org</a>&gt;
                            on behalf of Nathalie Peregrine &lt;<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:nathalie.peregrine@icann.org"
                              target="_blank">nathalie.peregrine@icann.org</a>&gt;<br>
                            <b>Date: </b>Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at
                            11:52 AM<br>
                            <b>To: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                              target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>"
                            &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
                              target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>&gt;<br>
                            <b>Cc: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org"
                              target="_blank">gnso-secs@icann.org</a>"
                            &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org"
                              target="_blank">gnso-secs@icann.org</a>&gt;<br>
                            <b>Subject: </b>[gnso-secs] Mp3,
                            Attendance, AC Chat for Next-Gen RDS PDP WG
                            on Wednesday, 18 January 2017 at 06:00 UTC</span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Dear
                                all,</span></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
                              style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Please
                                    find the attendance of the call
                                    attached to this email and the MP3
                                    recording below for the Next-Gen RDS
                                    PDP Working group call held on
                                    Wednesday, 18 January 2017 at 06:00
                                    UTC.</span></p>
                                <p style="line-height:15.6pt"><b><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">MP3:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> <a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gnso-2Dnextgen-2Drds-2Dpdp-2D18jan17-2Den.mp3&amp;d=DwMF-g&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&amp;m=KzV067Eeyuj3JRSZjh52PCELr7QkhUBq7VIagMYGQHQ&amp;s=uyVJrYZT_qdZJbfPUPpqgfDfWFEr8V_cPaLxcsC8WHg&amp;e="
                                      target="_blank">https://audio.icann.org/<wbr>gnso/gnso-nextgen-rds-pdp-<wbr>18jan17-en.mp3[audio.icann.<wbr>org]</a></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">The
                                    recordings and transcriptions of the
                                    calls are posted on the GNSO Master
                                    Calendar page:</span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&amp;d=DgMF-g&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&amp;m=weT6ABypO2mbhE1dWs5uImJ38Mh2plfgTgH1L07rZf0&amp;s=EHJpg8atZYvWGJ5XfS368jdC7F4jfuSw2xjKnh_5bn8&amp;e="
                                      target="_blank"><span
                                        style="color:purple">http://gnso.icann.org/en/<wbr>group-activities/calendar</span></a></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
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                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">**
                                    Please let me know if your name has
                                    been left off the list **</span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Mailing
                                    list archives:<a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/"
                                      target="_blank"><span
                                        style="color:purple">http://mm.icann.org/<wbr>pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/</span></a></span></p>
                              </div>
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                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Wiki
                                    page:  </span><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt"><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_tarDAw&amp;d=DgMF-g&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&amp;m=F8D7r-W_wECDv1_jEDzbEWNFadeWG_alTD0XBlxPtBQ&amp;s=RaRFcjj5cgZxXRr3idDQZOPXm8sHAdt_QG2T3G_mqU8&amp;e="
                                      target="_blank"><span
                                        style="font-family:-webkit-standard">https://community.icann.org/<wbr>x/tarDAw[community.icann.org]</span></a></span></p>
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                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Thank
                                    you.</span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Kind
                                    regards,</span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">Nathalie</span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
                                    style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">———————————————</span></p>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt"> </span></p>
                                <p
                                  class="m_7186021843802509145MsoNoSpacing"
style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><u><span
                                        style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">AC
                                        Chat Next-Gen RDS PDP
                                        WG Wednesday 18 January 2017</span></u></b></p>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard"> 
                                       Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all,
                                      welcome to the Next-Gen RDS PDP WG
                                      call on Wednesday 18 January 2017
                                      at 06:00 UTC.</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Nathalie
                                      Peregrine:Meeting page: <a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_EbTDAw&amp;d=DwIFaQ&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&amp;m=WjwIlN9HqKqst0hBUakd2-JJXpDPPFOkSb7qA5DRdFM&amp;s=9uxit6N-giqXHRfYH-5VIR7I-CJjYrAxWqkj2PJDjGc&amp;e="
                                        target="_blank">https://urldefense.<wbr>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-<wbr>3A__community.icann.org_x_<wbr>EbTDAw&amp;d=DwIFaQ&amp;c=<wbr>FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6<wbr>sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=PDd_<wbr>FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsy<wbr>XrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_<wbr>uTSDzgqG&amp;m=<wbr>WjwIlN9HqKqst0hBUakd2-<wbr>JJXpDPPFOkSb7qA5DRdFM&amp;s=<wbr>9uxit6N-giqXHRfYH-5VIR7I-<wbr>CJjYrAxWqkj2PJDjGc&amp;e=</a></span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:good morning people</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:it's good middle of the
                                      bloody night :)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Chuck
                                      Gomes:Morning?!!</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:Good Afternoon ;-)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Alex
                                      Deacon:Hi all...</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Abdeldjalil
                                      Bachar Bong:Bonjour à tous / hello
                                      to everyone </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):Good morning all.</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:MUTE yourselves please</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Fabricio
                                      Vayra:good morning</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Tapani
                                      Tarvainen:Decent hour in Finland,
                                      too</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Farell
                                      FOLLY  (africa 2.0):Morning All</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:6am is an hour</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Tapani
                                      Tarvainen:8am here</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:I'm not sure if it's decent
                                      or desiarable</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):not thaat horrible
                                      - 9am</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Farell
                                      FOLLY  (africa 2.0):6 am here !</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:Currently in Bangkok
                                      1 PM</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:so not to bad</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:1 am here.  I am not at my
                                      perkiest I must admit.</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:So a silent Stephanie
                                      today? ;-)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:Not likely...just delayed,
                                      I suspect....:-)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Marika
                                      Konings:no, I haven't seen
                                      anything</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Sam
                                      Lanfranco   npoc/csih:Stephanie is
                                      probably quiet because it is -5C
                                      outside and the weather is
                                      freezing rain (-: </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Lisa
                                      Phifer:Actually, question 3
                                      assessed level of support for
                                      several listed purposes, not just
                                      Domain Name Certification</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:Yes Sam, if the power goes
                                      out again I may be extra quiet....</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Alex
                                      Deacon:1995 - earlier if you count
                                      the RSA days :)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Fabricio
                                      Vayra:@Alex - Nice!</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Sam
                                      Lanfranco   npoc/csih:Question:
                                      What percentage of DN Certificate
                                      Requests turn out to be bogus?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):current WHOIS data
                                      is not 100% true .. should we
                                      assume that not all 100% are good?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Abdeldjalil
                                      Bachar Bong:I need some
                                      clarification about the first
                                      question as iam newcomer in this
                                      WG ,Thanks my second do you have
                                      some resources for no-English
                                      speaker ?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:or .se / .nu where
                                      there are no info in whois for
                                      private persons</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Lisa
                                      Phifer:@Geoff, with respect to
                                      thin data elements, which elements
                                      are consulted for this
                                      authentication?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:My current bugbear is a
                                      particular company who insists on
                                      sending us their requests</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:not to our clients</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Daniel
                                      K. Nanghaka:The challenge with the
                                      WHOIS is that there is no
                                      appropriate verification method
                                      for the users - there should be a
                                      way to validate sensitive data </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:How often do you need to
                                      authenticate for these
                                      certificates?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:at least once per
                                      year</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:Do you rely on what is in
                                      WHOIS, OR do you call the
                                      technical/administrative contact?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:per domain/
                                      certificate</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:what data do you trust?  IN
                                      other words, how do you verify the
                                      data?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:domain validated certs are
                                      the cheapest ones</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:they're also the fastest
                                      ones to get issued</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:the level of "trust" is
                                      negligible</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:But what are they worth?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:Stephanie - to whom?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:To anyone who is relying on
                                      the certificate....</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):hhmm .. and if the
                                      mailbox was compromised ?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:FYI - they're also used by
                                      valid users like me :)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:I'm using one on
                                      michele.blog</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Alex
                                      Deacon:You could argue that Domain
                                      Validation certs are good for
                                      encryption only.   they provide
                                      zero value from an
                                      authentication/identity point of
                                      view. </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:I would have no clue what I
                                      am using.  I think I speak for
                                      most consumers....</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:what Alex said</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:they're a step up from a
                                      self-signed cert</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:Thanks Alex, that is kind
                                      of where I was heading....</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Daniel
                                      K. Nanghaka:This is where Domain
                                      verification comes in strongly -
                                      and the Domain validated
                                      certificates should be placed in
                                      the page of the Domain to prove
                                      that the domain is validated. The
                                      Company should have a respective
                                      data handler who will be
                                      responsible for domain validation
                                      and certificate authentication. </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:Daniel - which company?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:Unsure how you will
                                      make that happen Daniel?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):The company</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):in some movies it
                                      was the name for one of the
                                      agencies</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Alex
                                      Deacon:@stephanie - it depends on
                                      the type of cert. </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Daniel
                                      K. Nanghaka:@Michele - the company
                                      that that owns the Domain</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Daniel
                                      K. Nanghaka:Yes, the biggest
                                      challenge is that many companies
                                      take these certificates for
                                      granted</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:Daniel - what makes you
                                      think they're a company? these
                                      days a LOT of the domain validated
                                      certs are for individiuals not
                                      companies</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__letsencrypt.org_&amp;d=DwIFaQ&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&amp;m=WjwIlN9HqKqst0hBUakd2-JJXpDPPFOkSb7qA5DRdFM&amp;s=gUMAlV9Le_Uk-WKSJISZI3A_tCUNIGZECo84Qr5k-w0&amp;e="
                                        target="_blank">https://urldefense.<wbr>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-<wbr>3A__letsencrypt.org_&amp;d=DwIFaQ&amp;<wbr>c=<wbr>FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6<wbr>sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=PDd_<wbr>FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsy<wbr>XrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_<wbr>uTSDzgqG&amp;m=<wbr>WjwIlN9HqKqst0hBUakd2-<wbr>JJXpDPPFOkSb7qA5DRdFM&amp;s=<wbr>gUMAlV9Le_Uk-WKSJISZI3A_<wbr>tCUNIGZECo84Qr5k-w0&amp;e=</a></span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:see also <a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__motherboard.vice.com_read_google-2Dwill-2Dsoon-2Dshame-2Dall-2Dwebsites-2Dthat-2Dare-2Dunencrypted-2Dchrome-2Dhttps&amp;d=DwIFaQ&amp;c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=PDd_FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsyXrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_uTSDzgqG&amp;m=WjwIlN9HqKqst0hBUakd2-JJXpDPPFOkSb7qA5DRdFM&amp;s=pFgFCnrUIsQEyD06VMwyJjHMCAjk5hpZrorKO9I0cCU&amp;e="
                                        target="_blank">https://urldefense.<wbr>proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-<wbr>3A__motherboard.vice.com_read_<wbr>google-2Dwill-2Dsoon-2Dshame-<wbr>2Dall-2Dwebsites-2Dthat-2Dare-<wbr>2Dunencrypted-2Dchrome-<wbr>2Dhttps&amp;d=DwIFaQ&amp;c=<wbr>FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6<wbr>sJms7xcl4I5cM&amp;r=PDd_<wbr>FX3f4MVgkEIi9GHvVoUhbecsvLhgsy<wbr>XrxgtbL10DTBs0i1jYiBM_<wbr>uTSDzgqG&amp;m=<wbr>WjwIlN9HqKqst0hBUakd2-<wbr>JJXpDPPFOkSb7qA5DRdFM&amp;s=<wbr>pFgFCnrUIsQEyD06VMwyJjHMCAjk5h<wbr>pZrorKO9I0cCU&amp;e=</a></span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):letsencrypt ...
                                      they relay on publicsuffix, for
                                      exumple and the latter uses whois
                                      ...</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):*example</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):the only other
                                      source of info ... is LEA </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Alex
                                      Deacon:@maxim - you lost
                                      me.  what  info does LEA have?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):Law Enforcement
                                      Agency</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Alex
                                      Deacon:i know what lea stands
                                      for....</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:I must be missing something
                                      here.  If I am a legitimate rep of
                                      a company requesting a cert, why
                                      could you not ask for a whole mess
                                      of non-publically available data,
                                      signed by the company, to validate
                                      my request?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):current internet
                                      users will surely suffer (and
                                      services too ) if certificates are
                                      no more</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:Stephanie - because it's
                                      time consuming and a pain in the
                                      neck?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:If you are looking for a
                                      phone number is that part of thin
                                      data?  I did not think so.  </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:it doesn't scale</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Alex
                                      Deacon:@stephanie -  a CA needs a
                                      way to "bind" (associate) an
                                      org/user with a domain.   WHOIS
                                      does this today.  </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:phone numbers are "thick"</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:That is what I thought.  So
                                      we are talking about thick data
                                      here.  And if only some
                                      registrants want certs, then why
                                      should all registrants have to put
                                      their thick data in WHOIS?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Lisa
                                      Phifer:Note that handout is now
                                      displayed, showing this purpose
                                      and related thin data elements</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:So what percentage of
                                      registrations want/need certs?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:Stephanie - see the link I
                                      posted above</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:Soon every active
                                      domains with a website</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:what Benny said :)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:We are talking about a
                                      purpose for collection.  I will
                                      certainly argue about
                                      disclosure.  you are collecting
                                      for a valid purpose.  We need to
                                      discuss how you are going to use
                                      and disclose it.</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Abdeldjalil
                                      Bachar Bong:@Maxim I need more
                                      information when you said the
                                      current internet user will sufer
                                      if we don't have more
                                      certifications </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:As far as I can see though,
                                      you are not collecting any
                                      separate data elements solely for
                                      the purpose of domain certs.
                                      validation</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:Stephanie - in thin?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):@Abdeldjalil lots
                                      of services redend on certificates
                                      ... e-mail , online banking e.t.c.</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:certainly in thin, but even
                                      in thick...what new data elements
                                      are you looking for?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:Stephanie - no new ones</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Abdeldjalil
                                      Bachar Bong:Thanks @Maxim </span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Lisa
                                      Phifer:After we get rough
                                      consensus on purposes for
                                      collecting thin data, we'll move
                                      to Data Elements and examine the
                                      individual data elements needed by
                                      that purpose, and given that we
                                      can look at under what conditions
                                      that data should be disclosed for
                                      that purpose...</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:I seem to be the only one
                                      quibbling here.  I am not arguing
                                      about the importance of
                                      encryption, or certification of
                                      sites.  I am quibbling about
                                      whether authenticators, who
                                      arguably ought to be trusted
                                      parties, should be harvesting this
                                      data off an open WHOIS.  If this
                                      is what they are doing as part of
                                      their functions, they could be
                                      autheticated to seek the data at a
                                      deeper level.</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Lisa
                                      Phifer:@Sam, do study subjects not
                                      have any opportunity for
                                      anonymity, or does it depend on
                                      the study and the types of data
                                      involved?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:It depends on the
                                      university ethics
                                      protocols.  Certainly in Canadian
                                      unis you would not be able to
                                      disclose the personal data, you
                                      would have to bind users to the
                                      same privacy commitements.</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:ICANN would have to set a
                                      research protocol for this, that
                                      meets the highest standard,
                                      otherwise academic access could
                                      become one of those jurisdictional
                                      nightmares....</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Lisa
                                      Phifer:@Rod, you propose adding
                                      Name Servers and Registrar to the
                                      list of thin data elements for
                                      this purpose?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:Is it not the case that
                                      every time you need thick data,
                                      you absolutely have to have access
                                      to the thin data to get at it??</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Lisa
                                      Phifer:@Stephanie, yes, you need
                                      at least Domain Name to query any
                                      WHOIS data, but beyond that you
                                      may not need other thin data
                                      elements (dates, etc) for a given
                                      purpose</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:Stephanie - yes</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:Thanks Michele</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:the thin tells you where to
                                      find the thick</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:(sort of)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:(and I can't believe I just
                                      wrote that and it made sense to
                                      me)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:It is indeed a worrying
                                      sign...</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:We have been at this a full
                                      year, I would point out....</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:Consumer protection is very
                                      limited.  Yes it is a valid
                                      purpose.  Disclosure is another
                                      matter...</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Sam
                                      Lanfranco   npoc/csih:Q. Thin raw
                                      data from the polls, or Thick raw
                                      data from the polls? (-:</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):just add checkbox
                                      - I do want my name shown</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Tapani
                                      Tarvainen:Analyzing pdf is not
                                      impossible, it's just a bit less
                                      convenient than xls</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:I think it would be
                                      interesting to see both.  I want
                                      to look for contradictions in
                                      responses.  I also want to look
                                      for aggregates.</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):NamesCon?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Tapani
                                      Tarvainen:(having written a number
                                      of pdf-to-text thingies...)</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):Could we add
                                      example of report as a header to
                                      survey? like after you fill this -
                                      it is going to look like this and
                                      that?</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Lisa
                                      Phifer:In short, we would need to
                                      get consent of all who responded</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):P.s: my IP address
                                      is useless ... giant NAT pool of
                                      the local ISP</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:Stephanie is that you??</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Tapani
                                      Tarvainen:+1 Stephanie. Don't
                                      really see any privacy issue here.</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:has someone hijacked her
                                      identity??</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Michele
                                      Neylon:/me ducks</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Lisa
                                      Phifer:@Maxim, generally not true
                                      of respondents taking survey from
                                      within corporate networks - in
                                      that case, IP is often static</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Stephanie
                                      Perrin:Sadly I may not be on the
                                      call next week, depending on
                                      travel schedule</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):@Lisa, agree - it
                                      depends</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Maxim
                                      Alzoba (FAITID):Bye all</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Benny
                                      / Nordreg AB:bye all</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Daniel
                                      K. Nanghaka:bye</span></p>
                                </div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                      style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:-webkit-standard">  Patrick
                                      Lenihan:Thanks to Each and All!</span></p>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                  style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></p>
                            </div>
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                        <br>
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