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<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">I am not sure how we
get to this discussion. What I am saying, is that the purpose
of collecting data has to be linked to ICANN's core mission.
AS Peter said a while ago, is the core mission to enable law
enforcement investigations? No. It is a legitimate purpose to
use or disclose limited sets of data as required in accordance
with law, but it is not the reason we collect or generate thin
data. This distinction is important in data protection law.
Nobody is saying we should not disclose the thin data,
including name servers. What we are trying to say, and
obviously with very little success, is that several of the
purposes for collecting thin data which were in the last poll,
were not related to ICANN's core mission. They might be
legitimate disclosures of data, but they are not legitimate
purposes to collect.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Displaying data in
WHOIS is a disclosure. We are not supposed to be talking
about that yet. We keep conflating the legitimacy of
collection, and why we gather or generate data elements about
a domain name, and disclosure. <br>
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">Sorry to keep
hammering on this, but it is a very simple concept that is
fundamental to data protection. No wonder we have been
arguing about this for 18 years.....</font></font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><font face="Lucida Grande">cheers Stephanie</font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-01-25 21:06, John Bambenek
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:C1B96123-1E2D-4095-ABAD-108F4FC9D67F@bambenekconsulting.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>Regardless of the privacy implications, if someone who wants
to look up a hostname and can't find can't figure out what the
authoritative nameservers are for the domain, DNS quite simply
will not work and with it the internet is down; go home. </div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">Unless someone is suggesting we
completely re-architect DNS, having nameservers tied to domain
records is absolutely essential.</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">You could deprecate displaying it in
whois but any DNS client would easily be able to retrieve the
data because the resolver still has to know what to ask for. </div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">J<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Jan 25, 2017, at 16:08, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Stephanie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Do
you have any links to any legislation / regulations
etc., that are this broad?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">And
honestly I don’t see how a set of nameserver is
“personally identifiable” unless you’re using your own
name in the hostname (which you could, but then I’d see
that as your choice and not a technical requirement)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
Michele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">--</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Blacknight Solutions</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Hosting, Colocation & Domains</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.blacknight.host/"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">http://www.blacknight.host/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blacknight.blog/"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">http://blacknight.blog/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
lang="EN-US"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ceo.hosting/"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">http://ceo.hosting/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">-------------------------------</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit
12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,</span><span
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"
lang="EN-US">Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Stephanie
Perrin <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday 25 January 2017 at 19:40<br>
<b>To: </b>Michele Neylon <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>>,
Scott Hollenbeck <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com">shollenbeck@verisign.com</a>>,
Sam Lanfranco <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net">sam@lanfranco.net</a>>,
"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18
January Poll on Purpose<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida
Grande"">Unfortunately, in a world where the
Internet of things is taking off, privacy advocates and
authorities have to insist that data generated by or as
a result of the actions of an individual or his
devices(eg metadata, timestamping, etc) has to be
considered as personal information. If it is used to
describe processes pertaining to that information, if it
could be used to incriminate that individual, it is
important that it be recognized as information for which
individuals have rights. Otherwise, we have a situation
where the individual has no right to access information
that may impact him, may incriminate him, but to which
he may be utterly oblivious. Sorry it is such a pain in
the neck, but there we are.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida
Grande"">Stephanie</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2017-01-25 12:32, Michele Neylon -
Blacknight wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Scott</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Sure,
but if we go down that route we could make cases for a
lot of things
</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">J</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">My
main problem with this entire debacle is that the data
we’re dealing with is pretty much useless and isn’t
personally identifiable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Michele</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mr
Michele Neylon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight
Solutions</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hosting,
Colocation & Domains</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://blacknight.blog/">http://blacknight.blog/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Intl.
+353 (0) 59 9183072</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Direct
Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Social:
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://mneylon.social">http://mneylon.social</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Some
thoughts:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ceo.hosting/">http://ceo.hosting/</a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-------------------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight
Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
Park,Sleaty</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93
X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Scott
Hollenbeck <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com">
<shollenbeck@verisign.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday 25 January 2017 at 17:15<br>
<b>To: </b>Michele Neylon <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com"><michele@blacknight.com></a>,
Stephanie Perrin
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"><stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca></a>,
Sam Lanfranco
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net"><sam@lanfranco.net></a>,
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">
"dave@davecake.net"</a> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"><dave@davecake.net></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18
January Poll on Purpose</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michele Neylon - Blacknight<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 25, 2017 12:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Stephanie Perrin; Sam Lanfranco; David Cake<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now
open: 18 January Poll on Purpose</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Stephanie</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Sorry,
but policy + the technology go hand in hand. You
cannot completely separate them and any policy that
this (or any other) group produces needs to be
technically possible to implement.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">As to the
specifics ..
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I would
argue that generated data is NOT collected, as it’s
generated.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">If you
register <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stephanieperrin.com">stephanieperrin.com</a>
with us the only elements we are “collecting” that end
up in in the “thin” data are:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">the
domain name string</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">the
nameservers you’re using (and if you don’t specify any
we’ll use our own)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">All the
other elements are NOT collected by the registrar or
even the registry from the registrant, they are
generated as part of the process of the domain being
registered.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">[SAH]
Michele, some might argue that the registration period
is also collected from the registrant and is then used
to generate the expiration date at the registry. A
case might also be made for status values like
clientTransferProhibited etc. I agree completely that
generated data is just that – generated.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Scott</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
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