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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Stephanie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Ok that’s simple.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If you want a domain name to resolve on the internet you need certain data elements to be available to everyone.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">That’s a technical reality.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
Michele<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Mr Michele Neylon<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Blacknight Solutions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Hosting, Colocation & Domains<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">http://www.blacknight.host/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">http://blacknight.blog /<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">http://ceo.hosting/<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday 26 January 2017 at 04:26<br>
<b>To: </b>John Bambenek <jcb@bambenekconsulting.com>, Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Scott Hollenbeck <shollenbeck@verisign.com>, Sam Lanfranco <sam@lanfranco.net>, "dave@davecake.net" <dave@davecake.net>, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"">I am not sure how we get to this discussion. What I am saying, is that the purpose of collecting data has to be linked to ICANN's core mission. AS Peter said a while ago, is the core mission to
enable law enforcement investigations? No. It is a legitimate purpose to use or disclose limited sets of data as required in accordance with law, but it is not the reason we collect or generate thin data. This distinction is important in data protection
law. Nobody is saying we should not disclose the thin data, including name servers. What we are trying to say, and obviously with very little success, is that several of the purposes for collecting thin data which were in the last poll, were not related
to ICANN's core mission. They might be legitimate disclosures of data, but they are not legitimate purposes to collect.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"">Displaying data in WHOIS is a disclosure. We are not supposed to be talking about that yet. We keep conflating the legitimacy of collection, and why we gather or generate data elements about a
domain name, and disclosure. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"">Sorry to keep hammering on this, but it is a very simple concept that is fundamental to data protection. No wonder we have been arguing about this for 18 years.....</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande"">cheers Stephanie</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2017-01-25 21:06, John Bambenek wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regardless of the privacy implications, if someone who wants to look up a hostname and can't find can't figure out what the authoritative nameservers are for the domain, DNS quite simply will not work and with it the internet is down; go
home. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Unless someone is suggesting we completely re-architect DNS, having nameservers tied to domain records is absolutely essential.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">You could deprecate displaying it in whois but any DNS client would easily be able to retrieve the data because the resolver still has to know what to ask for. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div id="AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">J<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 25, 2017, at 16:08, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Stephanie</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Do you have any links to any legislation / regulations etc., that are this broad?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">And honestly I don’t see how a set of nameserver is “personally identifiable” unless you’re using your own name in the hostname (which you could, but then I’d
see that as your choice and not a technical requirement)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
Michele</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Mr Michele Neylon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Blacknight Solutions</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Hosting, Colocation & Domains</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.blacknight.host/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">http://www.blacknight.host/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://blacknight.blog/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">http://blacknight.blog/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://ceo.hosting/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">http://ceo.hosting/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">-------------------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Stephanie Perrin <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca">stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday 25 January 2017 at 19:40<br>
<b>To: </b>Michele Neylon <<a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com">michele@blacknight.com</a>>, Scott Hollenbeck <<a href="mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com">shollenbeck@verisign.com</a>>, Sam Lanfranco <<a href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net">sam@lanfranco.net</a>>,
"<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">dave@davecake.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande "">Unfortunately, in a world where the Internet of things is taking off, privacy advocates and authorities have to insist that data generated by or as a result of the actions of an individual or his
devices(eg metadata, timestamping, etc) has to be considered as personal information. If it is used to describe processes pertaining to that information, if it could be used to incriminate that individual, it is important that it be recognized as information
for which individuals have rights. Otherwise, we have a situation where the individual has no right to access information that may impact him, may incriminate him, but to which he may be utterly oblivious. Sorry it is such a pain in the neck, but there we
are.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Grande "">Stephanie</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2017-01-25 12:32, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Scott</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Sure, but if we go down that route we could make cases for a lot of things
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">J</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">My main problem with this entire debacle is that the data we’re dealing with is pretty much useless and isn’t personally identifiable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Michele</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mr Michele Neylon</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight Solutions</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Hosting, Colocation & Domains</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href="https://www.blacknight.com/">https://www.blacknight.com/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href="http://blacknight.blog/">http://blacknight.blog/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Social:
<a href="http://mneylon.social">http://mneylon.social</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Some thoughts:
<a href="http://ceo.hosting/">http://ceo.hosting/</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">-------------------------------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Scott Hollenbeck <a href="mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com">
<shollenbeck@verisign.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday 25 January 2017 at 17:15<br>
<b>To: </b>Michele Neylon <a href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com"><michele@blacknight.com></a>, Stephanie Perrin
<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca"><stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca></a>, Sam Lanfranco
<a href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net"><sam@lanfranco.net></a>, <a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net">
"dave@davecake.net"</a> <a href="mailto:dave@davecake.net"><dave@davecake.net></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">"gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"</a>
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michele Neylon - Blacknight<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 25, 2017 12:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Stephanie Perrin; Sam Lanfranco; David Cake<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Now open: 18 January Poll on Purpose</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Stephanie</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Sorry, but policy + the technology go hand in hand. You cannot completely separate them and any policy that this (or any other) group produces needs to be technically possible to implement.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">As to the specifics ..
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I would argue that generated data is NOT collected, as it’s generated.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">If you register
<a href="http://stephanieperrin.com">stephanieperrin.com</a> with us the only elements we are “collecting” that end up in in the “thin” data are:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">the domain name string</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">the nameservers you’re using (and if you don’t specify any we’ll use our own)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">All the other elements are NOT collected by the registrar or even the registry from the registrant, they are generated as part of the process of the domain being registered.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">[SAH] Michele, some might argue that the registration period is also collected from the registrant and is then used to generate the expiration date at the registry. A case might also be made
for status values like clientTransferProhibited etc. I agree completely that generated data is just that – generated.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D">Scott</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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