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    <p>You seem to be saying: Let's abolish whois altogether since it is

      all fake info anyway...?<br>

    </p>

    <br>

    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 15.02.2017 um 16:29 schrieb allison

      nixon:<br>

    </div>

    <blockquote

cite="mid:CACLR7wKaSK6pYKpDaf1q6yVhB3iURigpfHimGU7CZzz3r2-Ekw@mail.gmail.com"

      type="cite">

      <div dir="ltr"><br>

        <div><br>

        </div>

        <div>&gt;&gt;<span style="font-size:12.8px">That would be

            providing incorrect whois data and can trigger an

            investigation by ICANN and the registrar, if noticed. Not a

            good idea. Let's not make the option to violate registration

            policy an argument against protection of private data.</span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Really? because I saw

            firsthand exactly how serious such an investigation is and

            it's a joke. </span></div>

        <div><br>

        </div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">&gt;&gt;</span><span

            style="font-size:12.8px">I am sorry you had that experience.

            Normally, if evidence is provided by the complainant that

            the whois is incorrect, most registrars will require that

            the registrant provides evidence that the updated data is

            correct, if only to avoid a follow-on complaint. If evidence

            suggests that the address is obviously and intentionally

            fake and the domain likely used in abuse, we may not even

            wait for the feedback of the customer before deactivating.</span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">While my domain was not

            involved in abuse, making a single address change, and

            saying "I assure you, this is where people should send mail"

            is more than enough to satisfy my registrar. Nothing stops

            someone from making a second complaint against a domain,

            especially if the goal is for takedown or harassment (which

            it almost always would be). And that second complaint would

            be as equally valid as the first one, and equally valid as

            my subsequent response. </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Cue yakety sax.</span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">The emperor wears no

            clothes.</span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">&gt;&gt;</span><span

            style="font-size:12.8px">Ah, you misunderstood me. I meant

            that when I, a customer, get ripped off by an Amazon

            marketplace seller, Amazon will in all likelyhood not

            provide me with all data they have on the culprit. Even the

            police may need a subpoena.</span><span

            style="font-size:12.8px"> </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">And the registrar doesn't

            publish payment info when the customer pays with a fake

            credit card. the comparison to WHOIS is nonsensical. WHOIS

            is not involved in private commercial transactions.</span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">&gt;&gt;</span><span

            style="font-size:12.8px">There has to be some form of due

            process, anything else is anarchy.</span><span

            style="font-size:12.8px"> </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">The Internet is in a state

            of anarchy.</span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">&gt;&gt;</span><span

            style="font-size:12.8px">Verification may be impossible.

            Validation on the other hand is possible. If you do not like

            the policy as it stands, propose an alternative solution.

            Ideally also tell us who will pay for it.</span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I do not actually think that

            physical addresses and phone numbers should be verified. I

            am saying that this dance around the issue of correct WHOIS

            data is a hilarious joke. You seem to have legal obligations

            to pretend otherwise, as a registrar, but I don't and I'm

            pointing out the nakedness of this particular emperor. There

            is absolutely no compulsion to provide correct info. I

            challenge you to prove me wrong.</span></div>

        <div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>

          </span></div>

      </div>

      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>

        <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 5:00 AM, Volker

          Greimann <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"

              href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>&gt;</span>

          wrote:<br>

          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0

            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">

              <p>Hi Greg,</p>

              <p>that is a totally different issue. Maybe such services

                need better regulation, but as long as the policy

                requirements are met, taking action solely based on the

                use of such services is impossible.</p>

              <p>Volker</p>

              <span class="">

                <p><br>

                </p>

                <br>

                <div class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-cite-prefix">Am

                  14.02.2017 um 20:19 schrieb Greg Aaron:<br>

                </div>

              </span>

              <blockquote type="cite">

                <div class="m_-3156251146789030328WordSection1"><span

                    class="">

                    <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"

                        name="m_-3156251146789030328__MailEndCompose"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">No,

                          the RAA validation steps are trivially easy to

                          get around.  You use the example of a fake

                          email address.  Criminals know not to use fake

                          email addresses, and they don’t need to

                          because they can get email addresses for

                          free.  One can sign up for free email accounts

                          anonymously.  There are even underground

                          services that will generate freemail accounts

                          in bulk.  These services cater to criminals

                          such as spammers who need to register lots of

                          domain names. </span></a></p>

                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span

                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></span></p>

                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span

                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">All

                          best,</span></span></p>

                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span

                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">--Greg</span></span></p>

                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span

                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></span></p>

                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span

                          style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></span></p>

                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span><span

                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> </span></span></p>

                    <span></span> </span>

                  <div>

                    <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1

                      1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">

                      <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span

                            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> <a

                            moz-do-not-send="true"

                            class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated"

href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>

                          [<a moz-do-not-send="true"

                            class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-freetext"

href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]

                          <b>On Behalf Of </b>Hollenbeck, Scott<span

                            class=""><br>

                            <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:57

                            PM<br>

                            <b>To:</b> '<a moz-do-not-send="true"

                              class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated"

                              href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"

                              target="_blank">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>' <a

                              moz-do-not-send="true"

                              class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                              href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"

                              target="_blank">&lt;elsakoo@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>

                            <b>Cc:</b> '<a moz-do-not-send="true"

                              class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated"

                              href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"

                              target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>'

                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"

                              class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"

                              href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"

                              target="_blank">&lt;gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org&gt;</a><br>

                          </span><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]

                          Dangers of public whois</span></p>

                    </div>

                  </div>

                  <span class="">

                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>

                    <div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue

                      1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">

                      <div>

                        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1

                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span

                                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">

                              allison nixon [</span><a

                              moz-do-not-send="true"

                              href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"

                              target="_blank"><span

                                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com</span></a><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">] <br>

                              <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 14, 2017

                              1:35 PM<br>

                              <b>To:</b> Hollenbeck, Scott &lt;</span><a

                              moz-do-not-send="true"

                              href="mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com"

                              target="_blank"><span

                                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">shollenbeck@verisign.com</span></a><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">&gt;<br>

                              <b>Cc:</b> </span><a

                              moz-do-not-send="true"

                              href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"

                              target="_blank"><span

                                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></a><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">; </span><a

                              moz-do-not-send="true"

                              href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"

                              target="_blank"><span

                                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"><br>

                              <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re:

                              [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois</span></p>

                        </div>

                      </div>

                      <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>

                      <div>

                        <p class="MsoNormal">&gt;&gt;[SAH] Actually,

                          there *are* requirements to provide valid data

                          and for registrars to perform validation

                          processing:</p>

                        <div>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>

                        </div>

                        <div>

                          <p class="MsoNormal">How do you expect

                            toothless policy to work *on the Internet*?

                            Seriously?</p>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></i></b></p>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span

                              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Yes,

                              seriously. Registrars who do not implement

                              the policy are subject to having their

                              accreditation revoked. ICANN has, in fact,

                              revoked or suspended accreditations. Here

                              are two examples:</span></p>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span

                              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"

href="https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2-2007-03-16-en"

                              target="_blank"><span

                                style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">https://www.icann.org/news/<wbr>announcement-2-2007-03-16-en</span></a><span

style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span

                              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"

href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/serad-to-patel-2-18jul14-en.pdf"

                              target="_blank"><span

                                style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">https://www.icann.org/en/<wbr>system/files/correspondence/<wbr>serad-to-patel-2-18jul14-en.<wbr>pdf</span></a><span

style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>

                        </div>

                        <div>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>

                        </div>

                        <div>

                          <p class="MsoNormal">worst that can happen

                            when you put in fake whois data is that your

                            domain gets reported, you change "123 fake

                            st" to "124 fake st", and your registrar is

                            satisfied because what more can they

                            possibly do. I know this because I went

                            through this with an old sinkhole domain.

                            It's a total joke. Let's not pretend it's

                            anything more than that.</p>

                        </div>

                        <div>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>

                        </div>

                      </div>

                      <div>

                        <div>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span

                              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Not

                              true. A fake email address, for example,

                              can be detected easily when email sent to

                              it (one of the registrar’s validation

                              requirements) gets bounced back. The worst

                              that can happen is that your domain gets

                              put into some non-operational state

                              (“suspend the registration” per the RAA).</span></p>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span

                              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span

                              style="font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Scott</span></p>

                        </div>

                      </div>

                    </div>

                  </span></div>

                <br>

                <fieldset

                  class="m_-3156251146789030328mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>

                <br>

                <span class="">

                  <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________

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    </span></blockquote>

<div><div class="h5">

    <pre class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-signature" cols="72">-- 

Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

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Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

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Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann

- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

66386 St. Ingbert

Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>

Fax.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>

Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>

Web: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>

<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:

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CEO: Alexander Siffrin

Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken 

V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP

<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a> 

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.

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<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________

Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>

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