<div dir="ltr"><br><div><br></div><div>>><span style="font-size:12.8px">That would be providing incorrect whois data and can trigger an investigation by ICANN and the registrar, if noticed. Not a good idea. Let's not make the option to violate registration policy an argument against protection of private data.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Really? because I saw firsthand exactly how serious such an investigation is and it's a joke. </span></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">>></span><span style="font-size:12.8px">I am sorry you had that experience. Normally, if evidence is provided by the complainant that the whois is incorrect, most registrars will require that the registrant provides evidence that the updated data is correct, if only to avoid a follow-on complaint. If evidence suggests that the address is obviously and intentionally fake and the domain likely used in abuse, we may not even wait for the feedback of the customer before deactivating.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">While my domain was not involved in abuse, making a single address change, and saying "I assure you, this is where people should send mail" is more than enough to satisfy my registrar. Nothing stops someone from making a second complaint against a domain, especially if the goal is for takedown or harassment (which it almost always would be). And that second complaint would be as equally valid as the first one, and equally valid as my subsequent response. </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Cue yakety sax.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">The emperor wears no clothes.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">>></span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Ah, you misunderstood me. I meant that when I, a customer, get ripped off by an Amazon marketplace seller, Amazon will in all likelyhood not provide me with all data they have on the culprit. Even the police may need a subpoena.</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">And the registrar doesn't publish payment info when the customer pays with a fake credit card. the comparison to WHOIS is nonsensical. WHOIS is not involved in private commercial transactions.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">>></span><span style="font-size:12.8px">There has to be some form of due process, anything else is anarchy.</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">The Internet is in a state of anarchy.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">>></span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Verification may be impossible. Validation on the other hand is possible. If you do not like the policy as it stands, propose an alternative solution. Ideally also tell us who will pay for it.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I do not actually think that physical addresses and phone numbers should be verified. I am saying that this dance around the issue of correct WHOIS data is a hilarious joke. You seem to have legal obligations to pretend otherwise, as a registrar, but I don't and I'm pointing out the nakedness of this particular emperor. There is absolutely no compulsion to provide correct info. I challenge you to prove me wrong.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 5:00 AM, Volker Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi Greg,</p>
<p>that is a totally different issue. Maybe such services need
better regulation, but as long as the policy requirements are met,
taking action solely based on the use of such services is
impossible.</p>
<p>Volker</p><span class="">
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-cite-prefix">Am 14.02.2017 um 20:19 schrieb Greg
Aaron:<br>
</div>
</span><blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_-3156251146789030328WordSection1"><span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-3156251146789030328__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">No,
the RAA validation steps are trivially easy to get
around. You use the example of a fake email address.
Criminals know not to use fake email addresses, and they
don’t need to because they can get email addresses for
free. One can sign up for free email accounts
anonymously. There are even underground services that
will generate freemail accounts in bulk. These services
cater to criminals such as spammers who need to register
lots of domain names. <u></u><u></u></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">All
best,<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">--Greg<u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></span></p>
<span></span>
</span><div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>
[<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hollenbeck, Scott<span class=""><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> '<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>' <a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank"><elsakoo@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> '<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>'
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
</span><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public
whois<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
allison nixon [</span><a href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hollenbeck, Scott <</span><a href="mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">shollenbeck@verisign.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">;
</span><a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Dangers of public whois<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">>>[SAH] Actually, there *are*
requirements to provide valid data and for registrars to
perform validation processing:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">How do you expect toothless policy to
work *on the Internet*? Seriously?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Yes,
seriously. Registrars who do not implement the policy
are subject to having their accreditation revoked.
ICANN has, in fact, revoked or suspended
accreditations. Here are two examples:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2-2007-03-16-en" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">https://www.icann.org/news/<wbr>announcement-2-2007-03-16-en</span></a><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/serad-to-patel-2-18jul14-en.pdf" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">https://www.icann.org/en/<wbr>system/files/correspondence/<wbr>serad-to-patel-2-18jul14-en.<wbr>pdf</span></a><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">worst that can happen when you put in
fake whois data is that your domain gets reported, you
change "123 fake st" to "124 fake st", and your
registrar is satisfied because what more can they
possibly do. I know this because I went through this
with an old sinkhole domain. It's a total joke. Let's
not pretend it's anything more than that.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Not
true. A fake email address, for example, can be
detected easily when email sent to it (one of the
registrar’s validation requirements) gets bounced
back. The worst that can happen is that your domain
gets put into some non-operational state (“suspend the
registration” per the RAA).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Scott<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_-3156251146789030328mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br><span class="">
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a></pre>
</span></blockquote>
<br><div><div class="h5">
<pre class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
Fax.: <a href="tel:+49%206894%209396851" value="+4968949396851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a>
Email: <a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a>
This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
</pre>
</div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________<br>Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>