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<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACLR7wKaSK6pYKpDaf1q6yVhB3iURigpfHimGU7CZzz3r2-Ekw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">>></span><span
style="font-size:12.8px">Ah, you misunderstood me. I meant
that when I, a customer, get ripped off by an Amazon
marketplace seller, Amazon will in all likelyhood not
provide me with all data they have on the culprit. Even the
police may need a subpoena.</span><span
style="font-size:12.8px"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">And the registrar doesn't
publish payment info when the customer pays with a fake
credit card. the comparison to WHOIS is nonsensical. WHOIS
is not involved in private commercial transactions.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Yet we hear claims on this list again and again that it is used by
internet users all the time to verify whether the site they want to
conduct commercial transactions on is legit.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACLR7wKaSK6pYKpDaf1q6yVhB3iURigpfHimGU7CZzz3r2-Ekw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">>></span><span
style="font-size:12.8px">There has to be some form of due
process, anything else is anarchy.</span><span
style="font-size:12.8px"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">The Internet is in a state
of anarchy.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
That does not mean we can act however we please, can set aside
consumer rights and ignore all laws.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACLR7wKaSK6pYKpDaf1q6yVhB3iURigpfHimGU7CZzz3r2-Ekw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">>></span><span
style="font-size:12.8px">Verification may be impossible.
Validation on the other hand is possible. If you do not like
the policy as it stands, propose an alternative solution.
Ideally also tell us who will pay for it.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I do not actually think that
physical addresses and phone numbers should be verified. I
am saying that this dance around the issue of correct WHOIS
data is a hilarious joke. You seem to have legal obligations
to pretend otherwise, as a registrar, but I don't and I'm
pointing out the nakedness of this particular emperor. There
is absolutely no compulsion to provide correct info. I
challenge you to prove me wrong.</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
If provided with actual evidence of wilful use of incorrect data and
the data either remains uncorrected or no evidence of acuracy of the
correction is presented, then you will find that many registrars
will deactivate the domain. For many, the threat of suspension of
their domain is compulsion enough.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACLR7wKaSK6pYKpDaf1q6yVhB3iURigpfHimGU7CZzz3r2-Ekw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 5:00 AM, Volker
Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi Greg,</p>
<p>that is a totally different issue. Maybe such services
need better regulation, but as long as the policy
requirements are met, taking action solely based on the
use of such services is impossible.</p>
<p>Volker</p>
<span class="">
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-cite-prefix">Am
14.02.2017 um 20:19 schrieb Greg Aaron:<br>
</div>
</span>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_-3156251146789030328WordSection1"><span
class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="m_-3156251146789030328__MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">No,
the RAA validation steps are trivially easy to
get around. You use the example of a fake
email address. Criminals know not to use fake
email addresses, and they don’t need to
because they can get email addresses for
free. One can sign up for free email accounts
anonymously. There are even underground
services that will generate freemail accounts
in bulk. These services cater to criminals
such as spammers who need to register lots of
domain names. </span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">All
best,</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">--Greg</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span></p>
<span></span> </span>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Hollenbeck, Scott<span
class=""><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:57
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> '<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"
target="_blank">elsakoo@gmail.com</a>' <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><elsakoo@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> '<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>'
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
</span><b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Dangers of public whois</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<span class="">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
allison nixon [</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">mailto:elsakoo@gmail.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 14, 2017
1:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hollenbeck, Scott <</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:shollenbeck@verisign.com"
target="_blank"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">shollenbeck@verisign.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Cc:</b> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">vgreimann@key-systems.net</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">; </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">>>[SAH] Actually,
there *are* requirements to provide valid data
and for registrars to perform validation
processing:</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">How do you expect
toothless policy to work *on the Internet*?
Seriously?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Yes,
seriously. Registrars who do not implement
the policy are subject to having their
accreditation revoked. ICANN has, in fact,
revoked or suspended accreditations. Here
are two examples:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2-2007-03-16-en"
target="_blank"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">https://www.icann.org/news/<wbr>announcement-2-2007-03-16-en</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/serad-to-patel-2-18jul14-en.pdf"
target="_blank"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">https://www.icann.org/en/<wbr>system/files/correspondence/<wbr>serad-to-patel-2-18jul14-en.<wbr>pdf</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">worst that can happen
when you put in fake whois data is that your
domain gets reported, you change "123 fake
st" to "124 fake st", and your registrar is
satisfied because what more can they
possibly do. I know this because I went
through this with an old sinkhole domain.
It's a total joke. Let's not pretend it's
anything more than that.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Not
true. A fake email address, for example,
can be detected easily when email sent to
it (one of the registrar’s validation
requirements) gets bounced back. The worst
that can happen is that your domain gets
put into some non-operational state
(“suspend the registration” per the RAA).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Scott</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span></div>
<br>
<fieldset
class="m_-3156251146789030328mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<span class="">
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
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</span></blockquote>
<div><div class="h5">
<pre class="m_-3156251146789030328moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
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------------------------------<wbr>--------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+49%206894%209396901" value="+4968949396901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a>
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</pre>
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______________________________<wbr>_________________
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</blockquote></div>
<div>
</div>--
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">_________________________________
Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
--------------------------------------------
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
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Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
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CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
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