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<p><i>Chuck, </i><i><br>
</i></p>
<i>I am in complete agreement here with regard to your personal
hopes about this session. </i><i><br>
</i><i>It is for us to hear from them with regard to their concerns,
and hopefully some with regard to our questions.</i><i><br>
</i><i> If my statement of hopes look to be at cross purposes to
that, I clearly failed to make my comments clear enough.</i>
<p><i>Sam </i><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/19/2017 7:52 PM, Gomes, Chuck
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Sam,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Although
I provided some input regarding the public session to Peter
and Stephanie in the early stages of planning, I do not have
any direct influence over the planning for the cross
community session.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">My
personal hope was that the cross community session panel
would be mainly data protection commissioners so that we can
take full advantage of having them with us in-person and so
that the community and especially the RDS PDP WG could ask
clarifying questions. Here are some of my reasons in no
particular order:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">90
minutes is not very much time for a subject like this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">It
may be unlikely that we will have another opportunity in the
near future where we can talk with European Data
Commissioners in person.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">The
WG is deliberating on Data Protection now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">A
cross community session is not the venue for deliberation;
the WG is tasked with that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">It
will be easy for us to get experts from law enforcement, IP
holders, etc. in the near future (and we will).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:windowtext"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">My
goal would be to improve our understanding of the European
Data Protection requirements as much as possible, not to
make any decisions though; we cannot fully deliberate until
we have looked at all sides of the issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Sam Lanfranco<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 19, 2017 6:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers
of public whois<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><i><span style="color:#660000">Chuck, Steve, et. al.,</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><i><span style="color:#660000">As I understand it the purpose
of this meeting is to understand their views from their
context, and not to engage them on our views.
</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span
style="color:#660000">Given the long history of both whois
and the data protection authorities, might we first simple
ask them:
<br>
(a) What do they see as problematic with the existing
whois? and <br>
(b) What would be their recommendations to be
considered as we develop a new RDS?
<br>
<br>
While the remaining list of questions (and questioners)
will be worked out in advance,
<br>
I would suggest that the sequence of questions be
re-ordered by Chuck, on the fly,
<br>
in response to the content of the opening comments by the
data protection authorities.<br>
<br>
my two cents...<br>
<br>
Sam L.</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/19/2017 6:10 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Steve,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
hope you will contribute some good questions for the data
commissioners in Copenhagen so that we as a WG can assess
their input and factor it in as we deliberate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Chuck</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> [</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Metalitz, Steven<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 19, 2017 4:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'theo geurts' </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><gtheo@xs4all.nl></span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">;
nathalie coupet
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com></span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">;
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">;
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rrasmussen@infoblox.com"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">rrasmussen@infoblox.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Dangers of public whois</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Let
me offer a +3/4 to the chain below. The following are my
personal views.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
don’ t have any fundamental disagreement with Theo’s take
on this. Yes, if we (or the original designers of the
current RDS) had ready access to time machines, it would
certainly have been designed quite differently. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">But
over 15-20 years, settled expectations have been built up
that contact data for domain name registrants will be
available to the public without significant restrictions.
People in many fields have come to rely on this as an
element that promotes transparency, and thus
accountability, for activities on the Internet. Everyone
recognizes that it is a highly flawed tool for advancing
this goal, but nonetheless it is a tool many people rely
on, and many of them would be very unhappy if an
organization like ICANN --- still unknown to the vast
majority of Internet users – were somehow to take it away
for them.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">So
if we are to move to a new system that will deprive people
(entirely or to a great extent) of this tool, then this
needs to be accompanied by some clear explanations of why
it is absolutely necessary to do so, and how what will
replace it will give members of the general public – not
just anti-abuse specialists, law enforcement and yes even
intellectual property interests --- at least some part of
the transparency they have come to associate with the
existing system. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And
personally, I don’t think that enactment of the GDPR comes
close – by itself – to providing that explanation. The
new regulation does not strike me as a quantum leap beyond
the EU data protection framework that has been in place
for more than 20 years, almost as long as Whois itself.
Ever since at least 2002 in Shanghai and 2003 in Montreal
we have been hearing at ICANN about the impending train
wreck when Whois collides with the data protection
authorities. Those who have been crying wolf on this
issue for more than a decade will have to take that into
account in crafting the narrative that will be needed to
explain a change of the magnitude we are discussing.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#88162E"><img
style="width:1.2916in;height:.425in"
id="Picture_x0020_4"
src="cid:part8.6BDC2A66.E7D0FF21@lanfranco.net"
alt="image001" height="41" border="0" width="124"></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#88162E">Steven
J. Metalitz
</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">|<b>
</b>
</span><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#88162E">Partner,
through his professional corporation</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">T:
202.355.7902 |
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:met@msk.com"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">met@msk.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#88162E">Mitchell
Silberberg & Knupp</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#88162E">LLP</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#84162E">
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">|</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#84162E">
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.msk.com/"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#84162E">www.msk.com</span></b></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">1818
N Street NW, 8th Floor, Washington, DC 20036</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> [</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>theo geurts<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 18, 2017 4:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> nathalie coupet; </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">;
</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rrasmussen@infoblox.com"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">rrasmussen@infoblox.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of
public whois</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Hi Rod, Thanks, Nathalie,<br>
<br>
@Rod<br>
That is good info, and I agree this is something we need to
keep in mind <br>
when we get to that stage, but yes as a WG that should
compass us.<br>
<br>
And even though we should not get ahead of ourselves, but
regarding <br>
solutions, having front row seats assisting LEA's and
Intelligence <br>
agencies as a Registrar in several high-profile
investigations like <br>
terrorism, IS, bounty kill lists and a lot more, I am pretty
sure we as <br>
a WG can honor the principle that privacy is a human right
as laid out <br>
by the UN, and yet make sure, we have the technical
solutions. I think <br>
creating the technical solutions is the least of our
worries. Engineers <br>
can code a solution for everything; we just need lawyers and
privacy <br>
guidelines to help us out. So perhaps we cannot show you X
as it is <br>
personal data we can show you A and how A is involved in
tons of <br>
criminal activities and map out an entire botnet...<br>
<br>
<br>
Have a good weekend or what is left of it.<br>
<br>
Theo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 18-2-2017 21:44, nathalie coupet via gnso-rds-pdp-wg
wrote:<br>
> I was holding my breath to see what the reaction would
be. +2 to Theo!<br>
><br>
> Sent from my iPhone<br>
><br>
>> On Feb 18, 2017, at 2:10 PM, Rod Rasmussen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rrasmussen@infoblox.com">rrasmussen@infoblox.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I cannot PLUS ONE this comment enough - thank you
Theo!<br>
>><br>
>> One thing that I would like to point out that we
covered in the EWG and I think is one of many keys to
solving many of the issues exposed here but is missing from
this current debate is the concept that we do not have to
come up with a “one size fits all” solution. For example,
there are different requirements under privacy law for
business entities vs. private individuals, there are
different amounts of information people and businesses may
want to provide to various parties both publicly and
privately, and those of us who deal with abuse and domain
reputation can make different decisions on actions
(blocking, take-down, LE involvement, etc.) based on what is
occurring and what is published in an RDS. Everyone in the
ecosystem already does this with the current whois system,
but inconsistently, with varying degrees of knowledge, and
without formal “rules of the road”. I think it would be
helpful for everyone, no matter what your primary issues are
to keep this in mind, as it allows you to better conceive
solutions to the myriad issues we have to address. Make the
system flexible to accommodate different kinds of use cases
and desires for “transparency” around domain ownership,
contactabilty, and accountability.<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>><br>
>> Rod<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Rod Rasmussen<br>
>> VP, Cybersecurity<br>
>> Infoblox<br>
>><br>
>>> On Feb 17, 2017, at 1:09 PM, theo geurts <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Mark,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thank you for your comment. I think you are
nailing the problem here; this is very good IMO.<br>
>>><br>
>>> "and the need to mitigate them does not
eliminate the need to have public data."<br>
>>><br>
>>> This is the issue here. That data should have
never been public if we look at the EU GDPR and many other
data privacy laws around the globe, and this is what causes
Registries and Registrars having massive problems regarding
complying with the law.<br>
>>><br>
>>> So we with the RDS we are starting from
scratch. So and I think this is KEY here, how do we ensure
privacy and yet make sure we can still effectively combat
abuse.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Speaking personally, I think privacy is very
important, and I do not like the fact my personal data is
being processed all over the place by shady folks.<br>
>>> As a Registrar, I find it very important that
we should not go backward in fighting abuse. For the simple
reason, abuse costs us money, and we should never be in a
situation that it becomes harder to battle child porn, or
taking down terrorists, or sinkhole botnets.<br>
>>><br>
>>> So what we cannot do is ignore all these
privacy laws. That would be insane as we would be piling up
in tons of fines here.<br>
>>> We do not want to reduce effectiveness
regarding abuse because that is costing money also. And to
be clear here, the registrants will be soaking it all up one
way or another.<br>
>>><br>
>>> So my take on this is, we make sure that we
move on and address BOTH issues and this is our task as a
WG. Our task is to solve these problems as we start from
scratch with RDS. We learned our lessons from the current
WHOIS, now we need to make sure that we can avoid all these
pitfalls within RDS.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Thank you for making it this far.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Have a good weekend,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Theo<br>
>>> Registrar<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>in an unjust state" -Confucius<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <span style="font-family:"MS Gothic"">邦有道，</span><span style="font-family:"Microsoft JhengHei",sans-serif">贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也</span><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca">Lanfran@Yorku.ca</a> Skype: slanfranco<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com">https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Lanfran@Yorku.ca">Lanfran@Yorku.ca</a> Skype: slanfranco
blog: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com">https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com</a>
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852</pre>
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