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<p>Hi Greg, <br>
<br>
Good comment. <br>
<br>
I agree on the educational part. But lets not stop there, how cool
would it be if you could surf to the RDS, look up the domain and
the select copyright issues, and it would have the option to send
a message to the correct parties for copyright issues? And this is
just one of the many ideas based on Chris his use case, I just
framed one solution here. <br>
<br>
Again, and I am going to sound like a broken record here, we are
not even close to the solution phase, this is just an example on
how you can make the RDS work for you.<br>
<br>
Best regards, <br>
<br>
Theo <br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20-2-2017 23:39, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+aOHURc-dOWXeXUVVpHT_pSen7nRq9G0TKPVC9RnjuGAW8zCQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">As someone who does a
fair amount of infringement/takedown work, Chris's chain is
pretty much like what I was going to type in before I saw his
email, at least for the usual IP infringement matters. When
it comes to phishing/spam/fraud domains and sites (often
siteless domains being used to support a typosquatted email
account), there's not much point in contacting the registrant
(but there I will often contact LEA). The registrar is
rarely, if ever, the first call or even the second (if the
registrant is not, e.g., Donald Duck at 123 Fake Street)
(maybe for a siteless typosquat supporting phishing/fraud
emails, and even there one needs to get to the email provider
first (although I've had one case where the sender and the
email provider were both buried behind various anonymizing
methods, beyond my ability to penetrate)). A reasonably
well-documented complaint is a must, of course. I think this
is true of the colleagues I know (attorney and non-attorneys)
and have worked with, as well.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Unfortunately, there
are plenty of non-specialists (attorneys and others) who will
take care of these kinds of matters and they will go to the
bright shiny object of the registrar with the abuse contact
number. It looks easy, and why give away work you think you
can do yourself. Training and education could come out of the
IP or other relevant communities, or out of non-ICANN
cooperative measures akin to the Healthy Domains Initiative.
Of course, there's already a fair amount of education out
there for anyone who wants to know how to pursue these matters
appropriately, but the problem is there's no one place that
all of us on both sides of the complainant/recipient dyad can
point to and say "read this and do what it says before you
send another [adjective] complaint to a [adjective]
registrar." (Of course, there are plenty of nuances,
exceptions and tricks of the trade, but the basics are pretty
... basic.)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg Shatan</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
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<div>
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<p style="text-indent:0in"><span
style="font-size:12.8px"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="UNIQUE_ID_SafeHtmlFilter_UNIQUE_ID_SafeHtmlFilter__GoBack"></a></span><b
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002e62">Greg
Shatan<br>
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">C:
917-816-6428<br>
S: gsshatan<br>
Phone-to-Skype: </span><font
face="Arial, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:13.3333px">646-845-9428<br>
</span></font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-indent:0in"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#1155cc">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a></p>
<p
style="font-size:12.8px;text-indent:0in"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 2:59 PM, theo
geurts <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Sounds good Victoria, thanks!</p>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p>Theo<br>
</p>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-cite-prefix">On
20-2-2017 20:48, Victoria Sheckler wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>If / when this is set up. I'm happy to share
with you how we approach these issues at RIAA.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Feb 20, 2017, at 11:43 AM, theo geurts <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gtheo@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">gtheo@xs4all.nl</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
Lets shoot for Johannesburg.<br>
<br>
Theo <br>
<br>
<div
class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-cite-prefix">On
20-2-2017 17:52, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
class="m_-8484545784142834307WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Maybe
punt until we’re somewhere a bit more
affordable?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Copenhagen
is going to be pricey </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings">J</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">--</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Mr
Michele Neylon</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Blacknight
Solutions</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Hosting,
Colocation & Domains</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.blacknight.com/"
target="_blank">https://www.blacknight.com/</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://blacknight.blog/"
target="_blank">http://blacknight.blog/</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Intl.
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:+353%2059%20918%203072"
value="+353599183072"
target="_blank">+353 (0) 59 9183072</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Direct
Dial: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:+353%2059%20918%203090"
value="+353599183090"
target="_blank">+353 (0)59 9183090</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Personal
blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://michele.blog/"
target="_blank">https://michele.blog/</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Some
thoughts: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://ceo.hosting/"
target="_blank">https://ceo.hosting/</a>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">------------------------------<wbr>-</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Blacknight
Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit
12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:black">Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93
X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From:
</span> </b><span
style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org></a>
on behalf of John Horton <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank"><john.horton@legitscript.com></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday 20 February 2017
at 16:43<br>
<b>To: </b>Chris Pelling <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:chris@netearth.net"
target="_blank">
<chris@netearth.net></a><br>
<b>Cc: </b>gnso-rds-pdp-wg <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="m_-8484545784142834307moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">
<gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg]
Dangers of public whois</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:#444444">That
<i>was</i> a good event (the Dublin
public safety/registrars event). </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:#073763">John Horton<br>
President and
CEO,
LegitScript</span>
</p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" id="m_-8484545784142834307_x0000_i1025"
src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"
height="36"
width="96"></p>
<div>
<div>
<p
style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"> </span></p>
<p
style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#444444">Follow</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0b5394"> </span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Legit</span></b><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#0b5394">Script</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica">: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank">
<span
style="color:#cc0000">LinkedIn</span></a>
| <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" target="_blank"><span
style="color:#6aa84f">Facebook</span></a>
| <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" target="_blank"><span
style="color:#674ea7">Twitter</span></a>
| <u><span
style="color:#ff9900"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://blog.legitscript.com"
target="_blank">Blog</a></span></u>
|<span
style="color:#ff9900">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts"
target="_blank">Google+</a></span></span></p>
<p
style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"> </span></p>
<p
style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#ff9900"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
id="m_-8484545784142834307_x0000_i1026"
src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"
height="96"
border="0"
width="46"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" id="m_-8484545784142834307_x0000_i1027"
src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"
height="96"
border="0"
width="47"></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Feb 20,
2017 at 8:29 AM, Chris Pelling <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chris@netearth.net"
target="_blank">chris@netearth.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">HI
Sam,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">Well,
we have ICANN 58 coming up
with a very tight schedule
looking at the draft.
Something the registrars
took on was at the Dublin
meeting, we booked a room
above a pub, got some drinks
and munchies together, to
get the "LEA/Public safety"
and registrars together -
the night was a success.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">IF
we could find somewhere, and
get something sorted, would
there be any interest from
the group, and if so, how
many ? </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">I
appreciate this is a totally
different situation and
requirement, but, its just a
thought :)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">Kind
regards,<br>
<br>
Chris</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">
<hr
id="m_-8484545784142834307m_-7377122079946866204zwchr"
align="center" size="2"
width="100%"> </span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">From:
</span> </b><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">"Sam
Lanfranco" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sam@lanfranco.net"
target="_blank">sam@lanfranco.net</a>><br>
<b>To: </b>"chris" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chris@netearth.net"
target="_blank">chris@netearth.net</a>>,
"Michele Neylon" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com"
target="_blank">michele@blacknight.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"gnso-rds-pdp-wg"
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org"
target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Monday, 20
February, 2017 14:38:40<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re:
[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of
public whois</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">Chris,
<br>
<br>
Your comment yanked my
chain. I agree with you
100% when you say “The
problem is from the
takedown / infringement
requests we see, 1, 2
and 3 [<b><i>due
diligence</i></b>]
are not even thought of,
<b>so part of this is
education</b>.” Good
idea. How do we get
there from here?<br>
<br>
As an economist I get
pulled into very large
project proposals that
are being clobbered
together by well
meaning, well educated,
people with their own
personal PICs (Public
Interest Commitments)
and who just want to do
good. In the “good
works” area there are
just as many crooks,
frauds, and sociopaths
as can be found trolling
in the DNS system.
However, over and over
again it takes me less
than two hours of due
diligence to uncover yet
one more “financier” who
is a fraud, a crook, or
simply trolling for a
big hit, and has the
financial resources of a
raccoon, information the
“good works” people have
managed to overlook. <br>
<br>
An effective educational
strategy is clearly
needed here. That may
include a <b><i>DumbOne’s
Guide to DNS
Complaints</i></b>
(avoided a trademark
there) and maybe even
generic semi-standard
forms for initiating
complaints. To do that,
it would be useful to
know the data on types
of complaints by type of
complainant (e.g. how
many and what types come
from lawyers, from
individuals, etc.) as
background for better
education here. Access
to that "How to" guide
should at least be
flagged in the domain
name registration
process, the web hosting
process and in queries
about complaining. <br>
<br>
Sam L.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">On 2/20/2017 8:32 AM, Chris
Pelling wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">I'll weigh in here for a registrar
who does not host
content that is
not owned by him.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">My views and points on this are,
for content based
issues, in
priority order,
top being the
highest (and first
port of call) :</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">1. Registrant if available or any
contact that is
identifiable on
the website in
question, if a
sub-domain, check
the main domain by
removing the
subdomain and
adding www or
leaving it off.
(some free
hosting sites give
subdomains away
free, but the main
site is always
only 1 click away)</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">2. Hosting company, look at the
nameservers and
this sometimes
gives the hosting
company name, put
the nameserver
name into google
and more often
than not, the
hosting company
will pop up -
contact them
alerting them to
the fact that
there is
potentially
infringing
information on a
website that is
hosted on servers
under their
control. Good
hosting companies
are very
responsive.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">3. If you cannot work out 2
above, whois the
IP address of the
website (including
any subdomain),
this will give you
the IP address
owner, they will
surely know whom
that have given /
rented / leased
the IPs too and
this gives you 2
above. If you
from doing this
get the registrar
and they are not
the hosting
company, this
would lend to it
be a forwarding
service, </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">4. If they are a "reseller
centric/wholesale"
registrar (eNom,
Tucows. Realtime,
NEO), then WHOIS
will often have a
"Registration
service provided
by" or "Reseller"
in the whois
output, this gives
you the
registering party
who took the
order, if not at
the very least the
registrar.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">The problem is from the takedown /
infringement
requests we see,
1, 2 and 3 are not
even thought of,
so part of this is
education.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Chris</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> </span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black">
<hr
id="m_-8484545784142834307m_-7377122079946866204zwchr"
align="center"
size="2"
width="100%"> </span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:Arial;color:black"> < rest deleted > </span></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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