<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Replies inline.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif"></p><div><p style="text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><a name="UNIQUE_ID_SafeHtmlFilter_UNIQUE_ID_SafeHtmlFilter__GoBack"></a></span><b style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,46,98)">Greg
Shatan<br>
</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">C: 917-816-6428<br>
S: gsshatan<br>Phone-to-Skype: </span><font color="#000000" face="Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px">646-845-9428<br></span></font><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;text-indent:0in" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a></p><p style="font-size:12.8px;text-indent:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif"></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Ayden Férdeline <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:icann@ferdeline.com" target="_blank">icann@ferdeline.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>+1 Stephanie<br></div><div><br>I am sympathetic to the position which Kiran argues, because in theory I can see how voluntary agreements could be a useful way to avoid heavy-handed regulation which helps no one. </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'm glad you can see how voluntary agreements can be useful. Hold onto that thought.</div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>BUT what we have seen in practice is very different. I’m thinking here about things like the Systematic Copyright Alternative Dispute Resolution Policy which the Public Interest Registry developed with the Domain Name Association. </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We've seen nothing of the SCADRP "in practice." It hasn't been put into practice.</div><br></div><div> It’s implementation has now been “paused”, but it was developed without adequate input from those stakeholders who would be most impacted by it. </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I don't have much information on what input was received and whether it was adequate. Clearly, a number of people/entities within two groups of "stakeholders who would be most impacted by it" did participate in its development -- Contracted Parties and those victimized by systemic copyright infringement -- copyright holders. I suppose there was not "adequate input" from the other group of "stakeholders who would be most impacted by it: systemic copyright infringers -- those who engage in pervasive copyright infringement or run sites whose primary purpose is distribution of infringing material. How would you propose getting "adequate input from those stakeholders"?</div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I know that intentions here were good, and I fully acknowledge that there are challenges involved in enforcing existing laws on copyright in online environments. </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Once again I'm glad to see that you recognize the positive intentions and the challenges faced by registries, registrars and others who receive complaints, and by the creative community and those who distribute the authorized copies of their creative output. Hold onto that thought as well.</div><br></div><div><br></div><div>But this ‘voluntary’ agreement did not provide registrants with sufficient rights in a process which could see them loose their domain name. </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">This is directly contradicted by the proposal itself. The proposal states that a key element is "ensuring that Registrants’ due process rights</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">are observed." The "clear and convincing" evidence standard is only one element of that -- this is a higher evidentiary standard than nearly all civil litigation -- and higher than that of the UDRP.</div><br></div><div><br></div><div>And it’s a slippery slope — if you can loose your domain name because of copyright-infringing content (which the registrant may not have even uploaded themselves), what’s next? </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">First, the SCADRP does not apply to garden variety "copyright-infringing content"; it only applies to "pervasive" copyright infringement and sites where the "primary purpose" is distributing copyright-infringing materials. So even the case at the top of your "slippery slope" is not one that will happen. "Slippery slope" arguments , like this one, that rely on false equivalencies and a parade of horribles concocted by the maker of the argument without any basis in fact tend to leave me cold. </div></div><div><br></div><div>Loosing your domain name because it hosts “fake news”? </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Distributing or hosting systemic copyright infringement in violation of the law is not equivalent to hosting "fake news." I don't know of any law against "fake news" as such, and I'm not sure who the complainant would be if there was one. And nobody has proposed a Fake News DRP (unless I missed something). A "fake news" site might violate the Terms of Service of the registry, registrar or hosting provider, in which case it will likely be taken down when the TOS violation becomes known to the contracted party or hosting company (assuming they agree that it's "fake news"). If so, the registrant can look for another service provider who has no problem with "fake news" sites.</div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Undesirable political speech? </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Again, not equivalent to illegal copyright infringement and nobody has proposed a DRP for this. I don't know who would support such a thing, but I'm confident that potential complainants under the SCADRP are not among them -- those who create, own and distribute copyrighted creative works depend on freedom of expression -- the ability to distribute their "speech" even if it is undesirable or unpopular or unsettling. Associating efforts to control systemic copyright infringement with banning undesirable political speech is ridiculous -- copyright protects the ability of a speaker to choose when they "speak" and when they don't "speak": the exact opposite of third party efforts to silence speech.</div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Had this policy been implemented, those that had the most to loose - the registrant and their domain name - would have been powerless to object. </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">While I don't think we need to have a competition about who has "the most to loose [sic]." The loss of billions of dollars every year to systemic and pervasive copyright infringement seems like a heavy loss. I find it hard to be sympathetic with those who engage in systemic and pervasive distribution of thing that are not theirs to distribute -- whether they are "fences" or sellers of "hot" cars or operators of websites or domain names used for pervasive copyright infringement.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The copyright infringers can always object "with their feet" and move to a different registry that did not adopt the Copyright DRP (many of those engaged in systemic and pervasive copyright infringement have a number of domain names as part of their business model anyway). Or they can object by raising a hue and cry. While I don't believe we have heard from the systemic copyright infringement stakeholder community in the current discussion, perhaps we will.</div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Registrants who had built their NGO or brand on their *.org domain name for many years cannot just move to another TLD or gTLD. </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Can you provide an example of a "registrant who built their NGO or brand on their *.org domain name for many years" and who is engaged in pervasive copyright infringement or running a website with the primary purpose of distributing apparently copyright-infringing materials? If this were a Venn diagram, I think these two circles would not overlap. As such, this proposal is irrelevant to "registrants who built their NGO or brand on their *.org domain name for many years." And if there are a few of those who also engage in systemic copyright infringement, I again find it hard to be sympathetic. </font></div><br></div><div><br></div><div>And worst of all, entities like the Domain Name Association (who I do not intend to speak ill of, I am just using DNA here because it is a recent and relevant case study) were not looking to implement this ‘voluntary’ agreement with just one registrar, they were looking for it to affect multiple registries and registrars, thus further hindering consumer choice. </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'm not sure if you have actually read the DNA proposal, since you seem to think it applies to registrars (and you failed to note the commitment to due process, among other registrant protections). The DNA program only applies to registries.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In any event, the program is voluntary (no quotes needed) and I'm sure some registries will not adopt it, perhaps seeking to cater to the systemic copyright infringement community (not a consumer group I tend to see identified as such) or for other reasons. The flip side of "consumer choice" is "provider choice," which this proposal supplies to registries.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Other examples that come to mind include the MPAA’s Trusted Notifier Program with Donuts.</div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Another example of what? A voluntary program? Something you don't like?</div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br>Chuck - it’s for all these reasons (inadequate consultation, little recourse, inconsistent application) that I find ‘voluntary’ agreements, be they between registrars, hosting providers, or another party, to be problematic and something that this WG shouldn’t be supporting. </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I don't believe that anyone suggested that this WG support the HDI or PIR proposals. I don't even think anyone has asked this WG to opine on these proposals -- which makes perfect sense, since these proposals are entirely outside this WG's remit. (Also, other than "inadequate consultation" with and "little recourse" by the copyright infringement community, the "all these reasons" in your parenthetical are not really elucidated here (particularly, "inconsistent application," whatever that is intended to mean).)</div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>I would prefer that we recommend, where appropriate, the formation of new Policy Development Processes within the ICANN ecosystem where the subject can be transparently and comprehensively evaluated by all impacted and interested stakeholders prior to a decision being made.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Again, it's entirely outside the scope of this WG to recommend anything in this situation. Also, I'm a bit surprised to see a suggestion that a GNSO PDP should be formed specifically to deal with the substance and procedures of copyright dispute resolution. I'm not sure if I object, but the clear message over the last few years has been that the details of systems to deal with copyright dispute resolution are better dealt with outside the ICANN ecosystem. I'm just surprised to see the about-face. Nonetheless, even if the ICANN community wants to get into the business of fashioning copyright dispute resolution procedures, there's nothing that prevents registries and registrars from independently doing so as well. Who knows -- maybe we will have "consumer choice" between two different models of copyright DRP!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Best regards,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><br>Best wishes,</div><div><br></div><div class="gmail-m_642400723462673344protonmail_signature_block"><div class="gmail-m_642400723462673344protonmail_signature_block-user"><div>Ayden Férdeline<br></div><div><a title="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline" href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ferdeline" target="_blank">linkedin.com/in/ferdeline</a><br></div></div><div class="gmail-m_642400723462673344protonmail_signature_block-proton gmail-m_642400723462673344protonmail_signature_block-empty"><br></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" class="gmail-m_642400723462673344protonmail_quote"><span class="gmail-"><div>-------- Original Message --------<br></div><div>Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois<br></div></span><div><div class="gmail-h5"><div>Local Time: 25 February 2017 12:43 PM<br></div><div>UTC Time: 25 February 2017 12:43<br></div><div>From: <a href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a><br></div><div>To: <a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a> <<a href="mailto:stephanie.perrin@mail.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">stephanie.perrin@mail.<wbr>utoronto.ca</a>>, <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a> <<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br></div><div><br></div><div> <br></div><div class="gmail-m_642400723462673344WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:windowtext"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">Stephanie.</span></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:windowtext"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:windowtext"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">I am not at all clear about what you are concerned about here. I was simply responding to a question John asked about WG scope. ICANN org nor ICANN community
has not asked or suggested that various contracted parties do anything in this regard. Various WG members have simply been sharing some ideas about education of users that might be helpful. I personally think it is pretty early to get concerned and that it
would be better to wait until we see if this discussion goes anywhere. In the meantime I think it is important for WG members to float ideas for possible future consideration or not. We will filter them to make sure they are in scope; some will be pursued
further and some not and the ones we pursue further will be vetted by the full WG so there will be plenty of opportunity to everyone to contribute. In particular, if and when the WG decides to consider any possible best practices, we will have to evaluate
whether there might be risk of coercion.</span></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:windowtext"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:windowtext"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">Chuck</span></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_642400723462673344__MailEndCompose"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:windowtext"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></span></a><br></p><div><span></span><br></div><div><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:windowtext"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">From:</span></span></span></b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:windowtext"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Stephanie Perrin<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 24, 2017 10:23 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois</span></span></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p><p><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:"lucida grande",serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:13.5pt">I have not consulted my SG yet, but I think I can safely say that we are getting quite concerned about what ICANN is asking/suggesting its various contracted parties do on a voluntary basis.
Best practice, particularly in an unregulated environment, becomes coercive.</span></span><br></p><p><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:"lucida grande",serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:13.5pt">Stephanie Perrin</span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 2017-02-24 18:09, Gomes, Chuck wrote:<br></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">Thanks for explaining John. Below is my opinion on ‘</span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">on whether it's appropriate for this group to make a
determination about this "chain of responsibility" as part of our work.</span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">’</span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">As someone else has already pointed out, ICANN has no relationship with hosting providers so it would be out of scope for consensus policy. But I don’t think that that would
prevent the WG from making some recommendations along the lines that are being discussed that could be implemented on a voluntary basis.</span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">I ask staff and others to correct me if they think I am wrong on this.</span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">Chuck</span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">From:</span></span></b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> John Horton [<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:john.horton@legitscript.com" target="_blank">mailto:john.horton@<wbr>legitscript.com</a>] <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 24, 2017 11:12 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Gomes, Chuck <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank"><cgomes@verisign.com></a><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>; <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Hi Chuck,</span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Sure. </span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">What I'm asking you to determine is whether it is within the ambit of this group's mission to do, or come
to a consensus on, the following:</span></span><br></p></div><ol start="1" type="1"><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">"</span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Establish(ing) chains of responsibility in the data," in the context of submitting complaints or resolving issues with a website or domain name</span><br></li></ol><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">, and determining "registrar obligations" in response to those abuse complaints. </span></span><br></p></div><ol start="2" type="1"><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Either alternatively or simultaneously, developing or providing a "how to guide" or "guidance" "for going forward with a complaint." </span><br></li></ol><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Concretely, I think the point is to formalize the notion that "registrars" shouldn't have to do the "hosting provider's job" and to "direct a lot of traffic away from the registrar."
For example, one "chain of responsibility" that this group might seek to establish would be to direct, suggest or advise that a registrant should be contacted first, then the hosting provider, and only then the registrar. </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">What I'm asking for is a determination on whether it's appropriate for this group to make a determination about this "chain of responsibility" as part of our work. From my perspective,
it is outside the scope of our mission, so trying to discuss it, persuade each other or come to a consensus on it in this group isn't <i>apropos.</i> If this is something that is requested by the ICANN board as part of the RDS's group and any report we issue,
or if it's appropriately within the ambit, it would be helpful to clarify that and also the scope. </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Let me know if I'm not clearly summarizing what I'm asking you to rule on. </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Thanks,</span></span><br></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">John Horton<br> President and CEO, LegitScript</span></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="96" height="36" style="width: 1in; height: 0.375in;" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"><br></p><div><div><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> </span></span><br></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt">Follow</span></span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> </span></span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt">Legit</span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt">Script</span></span></span></b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt">: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(204,0,0)">LinkedIn</span></a> | <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" target="_blank"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(106,168,79)">Facebook</span></a> | <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" target="_blank"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(103,78,167)">Twitter</span></a>
| </span></span><u><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(255,153,0)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://blog.legitscript.com" target="_blank">Blog</a></span></span></span></u><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> |</span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(255,153,0)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts" target="_blank">Google+</a></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> </span></span><br></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(255,153,0)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"><img border="0" width="46" height="96" style="width: 0.4833in; height: 1in;" src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"><img border="0" width="47" height="98" style="width: 0.4916in; height: 1.0166in;" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"></span></span></span><br></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 6:53 AM, Gomes, Chuck <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:cgomes@verisign.com" target="_blank">cgomes@verisign.com</a>> wrote:<br></p><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">John,</span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">Can you clarify what you want a ruling on?</span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">Chuck</span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_642400723462673344_m_-5557364173733076281__MailEndCompose"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> </span></span></a><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt">From:</span></span></b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:11pt"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a> [mailto:<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Horton<br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 24, 2017 8:41 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Volker Greimann <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>><br> <b>Cc:</b> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois</span></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Let me provide a few comments on that. </span></span><br></p></div><div><ol start="1" type="1"><li class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I like Volker's idea of including hosting details in the ultimate RDS. It's additional information, which may be useful to the viewer. From a concrete use-case perspective, when I or one of my analysts
is evaluating whether a merchant should be boarded with a bank or rejected based on risk, it's certainly one of the details we look it. (I'm not sure it's technically "registration data," but not sure if that matters.)</span></span><br></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I object to using the RDS (or this group) to establish chains or a hierarchy of responsibility as being outside of our scope and mandate. (Chuck, maybe we can get a ruling on that?) I realize that there
are members of this group who believe that a complainant should always go to the registrant first, then the host, and only the registrar as a last resort (some believe never). But that's not how everyone feels. Others believe it should be the payment processor
first. Still others believe the registrar should be the first point of contact for a complaint. Still others believe there is no hierarchy and it's a case-by-case solution and all facilitators are equally valid points of contact. My point is not to get into
an argument about who is right there (I and I'm sure many others don't have the time, and many of us have discussed this elsewhere); I simply don't think we should be using this group to try and resolve that particular issue, or impose some sort of a structure
on internet users, because I think it's probably outside the scope of our mandate (and I will strongly note that I don't think there's consensus on that issue).</span></span><br></li></ol><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Chuck, if I'm wrong and it's inside the scope of our mandate to use the RDS to establish a structure about who a complainant
should approach first, second, third, fourth, etc. let us know, but if it's in scope, that's going to be a somewhat different discussion. Again, my objective here isn't to launch another 100-email debate about who is right or wrong; my objective is to argue
that a) the idea of including hosting information in the RDS seems like a pretty reasonable one, but b) doing that in order to impose rules on internet users on what complaint hierarchy they should follow is out of scope for our mandate. </span></span><br></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(7,55,99)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">John Horton<br> President and CEO, LegitScript</span></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="96" height="36" style="width: 1in; height: 0.375in;" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ"><br></p><div><div><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> </span></span><br></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt">Follow</span></span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> </span></span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt">Legit</span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(11,83,148)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt">Script</span></span></span></b><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt">: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com" target="_blank"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(204,0,0)">LinkedIn</span></a> | <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript" target="_blank"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(106,168,79)">Facebook</span></a> | <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://twitter.com/legitscript" target="_blank"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(103,78,167)">Twitter</span></a>
| </span></span><u><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(255,153,0)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://blog.legitscript.com" target="_blank">Blog</a></span></span></span></u><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> |</span></span><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(255,153,0)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts" target="_blank">Google+</a></span></span></span><br></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"> </span></span><br></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344colour" style="color:rgb(255,153,0)"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344font" style="font-family:helvetica,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_642400723462673344size" style="font-size:9pt"><img border="0" width="46" height="96" style="width: 0.4833in; height: 1in;" src="https://www.legitscript.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LegitScript-Workplace.png"><img border="0" width="47" height="98" style="width: 0.4916in; height: 1.025in;" src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJTmNWbmcwOTVJMXc&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJQlZWOXVGbG9acC9nRGhzdEkxclFJVytCWVNjPQ"></span></span></span><br></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Volker Greimann <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<br></p><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><p class="MsoNormal">So should we maybe include hosting details in the ultimate RDS? These would have to be supplied differently, but it would make sense if we want to establish chains of responsibility
in the data.<br></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"></p><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Am 20.02.2017 um 14:20 schrieb theo geurts:<br></div><p></p><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><p class="MsoNormal"></p><div>Good point Michele,<br></div><div> <br></div><div> RDS should be a facilitating here in the sense that reports end up at the correct party and yet give the reporter a logical natural flow in creating the report without creating confusion with different set of contacts.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Theo<br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> On 20-2-2017 12:24, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:<br></div><p></p><blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><p class="MsoNormal"></p><div>Volker<br></div><div> <br></div><div> From our perspective the frustration is when the client (registrant) has their details in whois and / or on the website and the complainant makes zero attempt to contact them. The first we hear about the alleged issues is when I get a 100 page takedown notice
on my desk.<br></div><div> So if they can at least attempt to contact the website operator then it makes our lives a lot easier.<br></div><div> As the hosting provider we *should* have details of how to reach the site owner, but not always, as we also offer dedicated servers, colo etc., but we’ll know who the IPs are assigned to<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Regards<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Michele<br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> -- <br></div><div> Mr Michele Neylon<br></div><div> Blacknight Solutions<br></div><div> Hosting, Colocation & Domains<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank">http://blacknight.blog/</a><br></div><div> Intl. <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072" target="_blank">+353 (0) 59 9183072</a><br></div><div> Direct Dial: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090" target="_blank">+353 (0)59 9183090</a><br></div><div> Personal blog: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://michele.blog/" target="_blank">https://michele.blog/</a><br></div><div> Some thoughts: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank">https://ceo.hosting/</a><br></div><div> ------------------------------<wbr>-<br></div><div> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<br></div><div> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<br></div><div> <br></div><div> On 20/02/2017, 11:21, "Volker Greimann" <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Agreed. The question is who is next if the details are not available. If<br></div><div> it is content, the next port of call should be the host as the host has<br></div><div> the ability to remove said content and also bears certain legal<br></div><div> obligations in case of obvious violations while the registrar does not.<br></div><div> As the registrar may not even know the actual registrant, for example<br></div><div> for registrations under third party privacy services, it does not even<br></div><div> make sense to contact the registrar.<br></div><div> Best,<br></div><div> Volker<br></div><div> Am 20.02.2017 um 12:08 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:<br></div><div> > Volker<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > The key thing is the sequence.<br></div><div> > If the contact’s details are available either via whois OR on the website then they’re the first port of call.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Regards<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Michele<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > --<br></div><div> > Mr Michele Neylon<br></div><div> > Blacknight Solutions<br></div><div> > Hosting, Colocation & Domains<br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank">http://blacknight.blog/</a><br></div><div> > Intl. <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072" target="_blank">+353 (0) 59 9183072</a><br></div><div> > Direct Dial: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090" target="_blank">+353 (0)59 9183090</a><br></div><div> > Personal blog: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://michele.blog/" target="_blank">https://michele.blog/</a><br></div><div> > Some thoughts: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank">https://ceo.hosting/</a><br></div><div> > ------------------------------<wbr>-<br></div><div> > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<br></div><div> > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > On 20/02/2017, 10:46, "Volker Greimann" <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Well, the registrant may not be the right contact in all cases,<br></div><div> > especially if it comes down to subdomains. But yes, if the registrant is<br></div><div> > known, then he should probably be contacted right after a known website<br></div><div> > operator. But if the registrant is unknown, the next contact should be<br></div><div> > the host as he is closer to the alleged violation than the registrar.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Best,<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Volker<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Am 20.02.2017 um 11:28 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:<br></div><div> > > Volker<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Really?<br></div><div> > > As a hosting provider I’d strongly disagree.<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > If you’ve got a problem with content on a website you should contact the registrant first.<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Regards<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Michele<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > --<br></div><div> > > Mr Michele Neylon<br></div><div> > > Blacknight Solutions<br></div><div> > > Hosting, Colocation & Domains<br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank">http://blacknight.blog/</a><br></div><div> > > Intl. <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072" target="_blank"> +353 (0) 59 9183072</a><br></div><div> > > Direct Dial: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090" target="_blank"> +353 (0)59 9183090</a><br></div><div> > > Personal blog: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://michele.blog/" target="_blank">https://michele.blog/</a><br></div><div> > > Some thoughts: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank">https://ceo.hosting/</a><br></div><div> > > ------------------------------<wbr>-<br></div><div> > > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty<br></div><div> > > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > On 20/02/2017, 09:54, "<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a> on behalf of Volker Greimann" <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a> on behalf of <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > When you say web site, it should be taken up with the web host not the<br></div><div> > > registrar as the registrant is not necessarily the correct content.<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Problems with domain -> registrant<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Problems with content -> Web host<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Best,<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Volker<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Am 17.02.2017 um 20:49 schrieb Mark Svancarek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg:<br></div><div> > > > Counter example<br></div><div> > > > "Joe" has a web site which is used to abuse my trademark. I can't contact Joe because his thin data is incorrect or hidden (I don't know that Joe is actually Joe.). I then contact the registrar. They follow up with the privacy proxy
service if needed. Hopefully all this happens quickly and the cease and desist message is actually delivered.<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > In actual practice, there is a noteworthy difference in effectiveness if we have to go through the registrar, compared to us contacting directly. If the registrar isn't responsive, then I may have to pressure ICANN to enforce the registrar
contract, which has its own issues.<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > In either case, your abuse of my trademark is probably a civil issue, so starting with law enforcement isn't a great option, even if they had the inclination and bandwidth to help out in a timely fashion.<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > -----Original Message-----<br></div><div> > > > From: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se" target="_blank">benny@nordreg.se</a> [mailto:<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se" target="_blank">benny@nordreg.se</a>]<br></div><div> > > > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 9:41 AM<br></div><div> > > > To: Mark Svancarek <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:marksv@microsoft.com" target="_blank">marksv@microsoft.com</a>><br></div><div> > > > Cc: RDS PDP WG <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br></div><div> > > > Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > Let us take a simple example<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > A phone number can you as the one it's registered on choose by yourself if it shall be published in the phone book, if you give the number to someone it's your choice as an individual! If the police want your number they will get without
to much effort.<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > So why on earth are we forcing registrants to give up this right to choose to whom they share that info?<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > Forget what Whois are as we know it and come up with ideas how we can make a new system which takes reasonable interest of all sides here.<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > The Status Quo hammering are not productive at all.<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > RDS are meant to make change to the better!<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > > Sent from my iPhone<br></div><div> > > ><br></div><div> > > >> On 17 Feb 2017, at 18:28, Mark Svancarek <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:marksv@microsoft.com" target="_blank">marksv@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >> Spam and DDOS will always be with us, and the need to mitigate them does not eliminate the need to have public data. It seems orthogonal to me.<br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >> -----Original Message-----<br></div><div> > > >> From: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"> gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a><br></div><div> > > >> [mailto:<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br></div><div> > > >> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:benny@nordreg.se" target="_blank">benny@nordreg.se</a><br></div><div> > > >> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 8:25 AM<br></div><div> > > >> To: RDS PDP WG <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a>><br></div><div> > > >> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois<br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >> Another post about the problems with public whois<br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >> How anyone here can still defend this abuse of info as a the best system I have serious problems understanding.<br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://domainnamewire.com/2017/02/16/control-block-sms-spam-robocallin" target="_blank"> http://domainnamewire.com/<wbr>2017/02/16/control-block-sms-<wbr>spam-robocallin</a><br></div><div> > > >> g-based-whois-info/<br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >> --<br></div><div> > > >> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen<br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >> Benny Samuelsen<br></div><div> > > >> Registry Manager - Domainexpert<br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar<br></div><div> > > >> IANA-ID: 638<br></div><div> > > >> Phone: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B46.42197080" target="_blank">+46.42197080</a><br></div><div> > > >> Direct: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B47.32260201" target="_blank">+47.32260201</a><br></div><div> > > >> Mobile: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B47.40410200" target="_blank">+47.40410200</a><br></div><div> > > >><br></div><div> > > >>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 14:55, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <<a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:michele@blacknight.com" target="_blank">michele@blacknight.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div> > > >>><br></div><div> > > >>> Allison<br></div><div> > > >>><br></div><div> > > >>> As others have said, if you have an issue please report it to ICANN,<br></div><div> > > >>> law enforcement, consumer protection etc., Some of us take our obligations very seriously and lumping all registrars and providers into one big bucket isn't very helpful for constructive dialogue.<br></div><div> > > >>> We get a number of whois complaints from ICANN every year and we investigate each and every one of them. In some cases it's very obvious that the details provided are bogus, but in others it's not and we have to spend time energy and
effort going back and forth with our client and ICANN to resolve it. Sometimes this leads to domains being suspended or deleted, sometimes the whois gets updated, sometimes the complaint is denied. But each complaint is handled on its merits.<br></div><div> > > >>><br></div><div> > > >>> We also have a whois privacy service. It is NOT a fake address. You can check it in the Irish company office:<br></div><div> > > >>> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://search.cro.ie/company/CompanyDetails.aspx?id=480317&type=C" target="_blank"> https://search.cro.ie/company/<wbr>CompanyDetails.aspx?id=480317&<wbr>type=C</a><br></div><div> > > >>><br></div><div> > > >>> Now you may not like that people and organisations choose to obfuscate their contact details via services like that one, but that's a different issue entirely. I also personally have correspondence addresses in the US, mainland UK and
a couple in Northern Ireland. I don't live at any of them, but you can send me physical mail and I will get it. You could argue that the address is "fake", but as I can get mail to it I'd suspect that in many cases it'd be considered valid.<br></div><div> > > >>><br></div><div> > > >>> Regards<br></div><div> > > >>><br></div><div> > > >>> Michele<br></div><div> > > >>><br></div><div> > > >>> --<br></div><div> > > >>> Mr Michele Neylon<br></div><div> > > >>> Blacknight Solutions<br></div><div> > > >>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains<br></div><div> > > >>> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.blacknight.com/" target="_blank">https://www.blacknight.com/</a><br></div><div> > > >>> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://blacknight.blog/" target="_blank">http://blacknight.blog/</a><br></div><div> > > >>> Intl. <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072" target="_blank"> +353 (0) 59 9183072</a><br></div><div> > > >>> Direct Dial: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090" target="_blank"> +353 (0)59 9183090</a><br></div><div> > > >>> Personal blog: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://michele.blog/" target="_blank"> https://michele.blog/</a><br></div><div> > > >>> Some thoughts: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://ceo.hosting/" target="_blank"> https://ceo.hosting/</a><br></div><div> > > >>> ------------------------------<wbr>-<br></div><div> > > >>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business<br></div><div> > > >>> Park,Sleaty<br></div><div> > > >>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845<br></div><div> > > >>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br></div><div> > > >>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br></div><div> > > >>> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br></div><div> > > >>> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank"> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br></div><div> > > >> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br></div><div> > > >> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br></div><div> > > >> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank"> gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br></div><div> > > >> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank"> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br></div><div> > > > ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br></div><div> > > > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br></div><div> > > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br></div><div> > > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank"> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > --<br></div><div> > > Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Volker A. Greimann<br></div><div> > > - Rechtsabteilung -<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Key-Systems GmbH<br></div><div> > > Im Oberen Werk 1<br></div><div> > > 66386 St. Ingbert<br></div><div> > > Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br></div><div> > > Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br></div><div> > > Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"> vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br></div><div> > > Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br></div><div> > > Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt
sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > ------------------------------<wbr>--------------<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Best regards,<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Volker A. Greimann<br></div><div> > > - legal department -<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Key-Systems GmbH<br></div><div> > > Im Oberen Werk 1<br></div><div> > > 66386 St. Ingbert<br></div><div> > > Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br></div><div> > > Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br></div><div> > > Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"> vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br></div><div> > > Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br></div><div> > > V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing
or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > > ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br></div><div> > > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br></div><div> > > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank"> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> > ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > --<br></div><div> > Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Volker A. Greimann<br></div><div> > - Rechtsabteilung -<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Key-Systems GmbH<br></div><div> > Im Oberen Werk 1<br></div><div> > 66386 St. Ingbert<br></div><div> > Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br></div><div> > Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br></div><div> > Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br></div><div> > Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br></div><div> > Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt
sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > ------------------------------<wbr>--------------<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Best regards,<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Volker A. Greimann<br></div><div> > - legal department -<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Key-Systems GmbH<br></div><div> > Im Oberen Werk 1<br></div><div> > 66386 St. Ingbert<br></div><div> > Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br></div><div> > Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br></div><div> > Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br></div><div> > Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br></div><div> > V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br></div><div> > <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> > This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission
error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<br></div><div> ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> ><br></div><div> --<br></div><div> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br></div><div> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br></div><div> Volker A. Greimann<br></div><div> - Rechtsabteilung -<br></div><div> Key-Systems GmbH<br></div><div> Im Oberen Werk 1<br></div><div> 66386 St. Ingbert<br></div><div> Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br></div><div> Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br></div><div> Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br></div><div> Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br></div><div> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br></div><div> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br></div><div> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br></div><div> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<br></div><div> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br></div><div> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein,
so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<br></div><div> ------------------------------<wbr>--------------<br></div><div> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<br></div><div> Best regards,<br></div><div> Volker A. Greimann<br></div><div> - legal department -<br></div><div> Key-Systems GmbH<br></div><div> Im Oberen Werk 1<br></div><div> 66386 St. Ingbert<br></div><div> Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br></div><div> Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" target="_blank"> +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br></div><div> Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br></div><div> Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br></div><div> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br></div><div> CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br></div><div> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br></div><div> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<br></div><div> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br></div><div> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission
error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br></div><div> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br></div><p></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"></p><div><br></div><div>--<br></div><div> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Volker A. Greimann<br></div><div> - Rechtsabteilung -<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Key-Systems GmbH<br></div><div> Im Oberen Werk 1<br></div><div> 66386 St. Ingbert<br></div><div> Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br></div><div> Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br></div><div> Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin<br></div><div> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br></div><div> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten
wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> ------------------------------<wbr>--------------<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Best regards,<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Volker A. Greimann<br></div><div> - legal department -<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Key-Systems GmbH<br></div><div> Im Oberen Werk 1<br></div><div> 66386 St. Ingbert<br></div><div> Tel.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</a><br></div><div> Fax.: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851" target="_blank">+49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</a><br></div><div> Email: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> Web: <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank">www.RRPproxy.net</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com" target="_blank">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com" target="_blank">www.BrandShelter.com</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> CEO: Alexander Siffrin<br></div><div> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken<br></div><div> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534<br></div><div> <br></div><div> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank">www.keydrive.lu</a><br></div><div> <br></div><div> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error
has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.<br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> <br></div><div> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br></div><div> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br></div><div> <a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br></div><p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"></p><div><br></div><div><br></div><p></p><pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br></pre><pre>gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list<br></pre><pre><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-rds-pdp-wg@icann.org</a><br></pre><pre><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg</a><br></pre></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"> <br></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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